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[GROK]

http://www.sharonherald.com/local/local_story_201220311.html
 
I know that consolidation efforts have failed in the recent past but I think that it should be strongly revisited in these economic times. At least Farrell and Sharon school districts should combine. The decrease in property taxes by not having to fork out 20 million for a new school alone would help spur more relocation to the area. Does anyone know the mechanism offhand for accomplishing this? Would a petition and voter's referendum make this occur?

[Jayhawk]

Not sure what the process is, but it certainly looks to have few complications if you merge sharon and farrell -- adjacent towns, existing buildings are big enough and new enough, one doesn't have a superintendent, both towns are in financial trouble overall.

Something concrete like forcing a merger is what tea-partyers and other citizens should be rallying in favor of, not vague concepts.

[Valley Exile]

Two adjoining schools districts in Beaver County recently merged (Monaca and Center, I believe).  There was a fair bit of coverage in the Post-Gazette.  As an added incentive, the merged school district got extra money from the state.

[Lifetime]

"not vague concepts"... interesting..... TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY..... TEA... you call that vague? I think it is too the point..... now the target is picked... all it takes is.... how to do it. Have you even been to one of these rallies? It sounds like not. If you listen close.... it isn't asking for what we NEVER had but what we once had and was passed to us by Men much smarter than us. I wish you could tell them that was a vague concept...
 
Consolidation will NEVER occur... repeat NEVER unless those who think they have power will relinquish it in the name of the over all good. But alas.... preceived power is just that.... Sharon School Board contacted other School Baords in the adjacent communities.... I was at the meeting of the School Board on the Case Avenue problem.... Guess how many replies they got? Huh??? C'mon...guess.... Yup NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZERO. No one wants to discuss the possibility of their own "demise". Add up the Superintendent and Entourage Salaries... now tell all but one of each.... "See Ya, wouldn't want ta be ya."
 
It isn't the TEAPARTY people who have VAGUE CONCEPTIONS.... it is the players in the "politic" of our society. My job, My power, My self importance... Common word is.... yup... "MY". Now that isn't so hard to figure out, is it?
 
 

Not sure what the process is, but it certainly looks to have few complications if you merge sharon and farrell -- adjacent towns, existing buildings are big enough and new enough, one doesn't have a superintendent, both towns are in financial trouble overall.

Something concrete like forcing a merger is what tea-partyers and other citizens should be rallying in favor of, not vague concepts.

[GROK]

Lifetime,
Any insight on how to "force" this school district consolidation to occur despite the reticence of those in power? I seem to remember that the consolidation of cities effort was approved by the majority of Sharonites and Farrellites but nixed by Sharpsvillians and Hermitagians. If so, would another referendum by voters focussed only on consolidating these cities or school districts have a greater chance of passage?

[NightmarePatrol]

This is an interesting topic that will soon make its way to other areas soon. The interesting thing is the amount of community opposition that comes into play. Kind of a "Not In My Back Yard" scenario but with a twist. So where does the interest lie, ie. separatism or savings? Which path provides the great good?

And of course, what about the quality of education? How would that be affected?

[CindyLouWho]

It has long been that communities evolve and revolve around their school.  Community pride, community bond, friends, looking out for your neighbor, all that jazz.  Taking a school and taking it away from it's community is daunting to those people.  The bigger schools being made from merges all over the country is taking away from the small community spirit.....away from the feeling of safety and comfort of everyone knowing everyone....know what I mean here?  Anyone here attend a small school?  Then you know what I mean.  I went to Linesville myself.  Graduating class had 87 kids I went to school with for 13 years straight.....I knew their parents, siblings AND pets.  I knew when the family got a new car.  I knew when their grandma died and went to the funeral.  Community......

That being said, we are leaving the public school system. Tired of the fight.  My kids will be long grown and on their own with the way the leaders and teachers in my district move.  Meeting after meeting after meeting.  Letter after letter.  Call after call after call after call.  Pass the buck is the name of the game.  My youngest will spend two years in junior high here and I will be done for good.  My middle child is starting at Cathedral Prep this year.....we are already looking into Villa Maria for the youngest.  The fight started with my oldest.  I wish we had pulled her out as well but felt there was hope back then.

Our school district actually wonders why enrollment is down.

Is consolidation a good thing?  There are pro's and con's like anything else.

Any opinions on teachers unions?

[Jayhawk]

"not vague concepts"... interesting..... TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY..... TEA... you call that vague?

Not to take this tread off track, but to clarify my point: Yes, it's vague to march around with posterboard nailed to sticks saying "We're taxed too much. Cut our taxes"  without any real plans or proposals, because you know darned well the corresponding cuts in programs and services will gore someone's oxen.

Concrete is saying "my taxes are too high, and we can save tens of millions right off the bat and make better use of education dollars by merging these two districts . The alternative is continuing with building projects that reset the clock, starting another 20 years of "why, merger is a grand idea, but you see we can't do it now because we just put all that money into our new building. But once it's paid off/worn out, let's revisit a merger..."

[Jayhawk]

It has long been that communities evolve and revolve around their school.  Community pride, community bond, friends, looking out for your neighbor, all that jazz.  Taking a school and taking it away from it's community is daunting to those people.  The bigger schools being made from merges all over the country is taking away from the small community spirit....  Graduating class had 87 kids I went to school with for 13 years straight.....I knew their parents, siblings AND pets. ... Community....

No argument here that schools don't build a community. But eventually it comes down to: Can every crossroads around here continue to afford its own, stand-alone K-12 educational system? If you're in the middle of nowhere (lakeview, jamestown, commodore perry), it may not be economical, but geography makes it acceptable or necessary.

However, when there are Farrell or Sharon students who are as close or closer to the other district's schools as their own, and neither town is rollin' in the dough, the issue needs to be discussed. At some point it's not worth mortgaging our grandchildren's future in the name of our grandparents' sports legacies. I believe farrell may have cracked below the 50-student mark for graduates, and its population and tax base are shrinking. But neighboring districts are all heading the same direction.

remember, merging or consolidating doesn't necessarily mean all of one town's schools close. In the case of sharon and farrell, the buildings would adapt well to upper grades in own town, lower in the other. And bear in mind that within individual districts, the trend -- like it or not -- has been away from neighborhood schools and toward one, central, K-12 complex. Junior is 2 to 10 miles from school whether it's a stand-alone district or grouped with the next town over.

Though the same 50 or 100 or 200 students may not travel together throughout their education, it's not like they move away from one another in their neighborhoods and communities. Besides, even the higher, merged class sizes are dwarfed by graduating classes in the peak 1970s.

And maybe if two or three towns broke down the barriers of going to school with kids from the next town, it might break down what once was civic pride but now is just crippling parochialism.

[Kimmi]

Any opinions on teachers unions?

I live in a state that is a right to work state.  We have union representation, but not the power of picketing.  The government has taken out of my retirement and my paycheck to help deal with their budget issues.  That would never have happened in PA because when they have a contract, they stick to it!!  No where in my contract from last year said that Governor Bev Perdue had rights to take the money I earned whenever she felt like it.  So speaking as a teacher, there are things I miss about unions. 

On the other hand, I have survived 11 years without one.  I also have had a great governor (Gov. Hunt) who valued education and got the state pay up to the national average.  Since him, I haven't seen a whole lot of anything. 

[Lifetime]

If you would have been to one of the TEA parties I attended, you would have seen as well as heard what was expected. And it wasn't in VAGUE terms. First was a simple request... READ THE BILLS BEFORE you vote on them. Next..... at least attempt to cut the pork as well as demand an accurate accounting of the money already spent. It seems that isn't too vague or too much to ask before attempting to reach into our pockets and lives again. There are other things as well but you have to start somewhere to CORRECT a money problem besides throwing good money after bad.... don'tcha think?? I think there were some "SPOT ON" ideas on those placards. You have to see more than what the local media has chosen for you to see and consume.... Do you think protesting "Taxation without representation!!!!!!" a VAGUE CONCEPT as well??
 
 
 

"not vague concepts"... interesting..... TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY..... TEA... you call that vague?

Not to take this tread off track, but to clarify my point: Yes, it's vague to march around with posterboard nailed to sticks saying "We're taxed too much. Cut our taxes"  without any real plans or proposals, because you know darned well the corresponding cuts in programs and services will gore someone's oxen.

Concrete is saying "my taxes are too high, and we can save tens of millions right off the bat and make better use of education dollars by merging these two districts . The alternative is continuing with building projects that reset the clock, starting another 20 years of "why, merger is a grand idea, but you see we can't do it now because we just put all that money into our new building. But once it's paid off/worn out, let's revisit a merger..."

[Jayhawk]

Do you think protesting "Taxation without representation!!!!!!" a VAGUE CONCEPT as well? ?

Well, unless these people were unregistered voters or illegal aliens, they HAVE representation.
 

[Lifetime]

Ok... What I was refering to was the MANTRA of the very FIRST TEA PARTY...you know...... the one in Boston?? Remember me adding... "as well??"
 
I am well aware we have "representation" though some think it may be thought of as the wrong "representation".
 

Do you think protesting "Taxation without representation!!!!!!" a VAGUE CONCEPT as well? ?

Well, unless these people were unregistered voters or illegal aliens, they HAVE representation.

[GROK]

It seems that at least 1 school board director can think outside the box(see recent Herald article). I commend him and hope that others will follow suit. When it comes to savings, I see Mr Outrakis downplaying the potential cost savings. I doubt that he is being objective (considering that just utilizing the same building infrastructures will save MANY MILLIONS of local taxpayer dollars by not having to renovate/build anew). I wonder what his agenda is?!? 

[Jayhawk]

Potential cost savings of just Sharon-Farrell: No new $20 million renovation to pay off. 1 supt. 1 director of maintenance, of curriculum, 1 business manager. 1 administrative office to staff and run...

Sarandrea cited an unscientific herald web poll showing only 30-some percent favored merging with farrell, this the rest didn't. No, the question was what should sharon do: fix case, expand hadley or abandon those and merge with farrell. It wasn't merge/don't merge.

Along that same line, a separate story today talked about how the decision about building or remodeling might hinge on problems with abandoned coal mines below. Um, they've studied the buildings and compared with cost figures, but this little detail/cost is still totally unexplored?