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[beanie]

Well, if you're talking about total societal collapse (?), there is a big difference sometimes between one's vocation and their survival skills. But I live in an urban area, so regardless of my dedication to self-sufficiency and my (micro) homesteading, if anything really bad happens...I'm pretty much screwed.

[Lifetime]

Would and should have known you would pick up a mistake.... GRAND FATHER....
 
 
uote author=lifefeedsonlife link=topic=1513.msg31520#msg31520 date=1280871063]
2 Maternal Grandmothers?! 

Pretty modern for the times I'd say!

[Lifetime]

I wasn't talking total colapse.... I was talking and thinking a return to real personal and economic values. We have gotten to the point where we think success and "doing better" is owning a 1/4 million dollar home and 2 cars to whatever title is deposited in front of your name.... like Mr. Mrs, Miss etc are not good enough. Just what is the concept of "doing better" to you??? Not just you ....it was a question I pose for thought. To me... today.... it is that my Grand Children need for nothing and can get some wants and their parents are able to do this on their own. Add to that, being happy in who they are.
 
My Father would have expected no less from me. I never recalled that he went on vacations so he worked constantly. For the most part, his wife, my mother, was a stay at home Mom and took care of me and later my younger sister. At the time our NEEDS were basic. There was no cars in my family and we didn't get a tv until the week he retired. Bills were simple...pay as you go... with house payment, tax/ins., gas, electric, water and a single rotary phone. Now count your assorted bills...from sewer to trash to cable to cell and computer. Sometimes just living today becomes complicated to the point that we either HAVE to lose the in home mom or a second job needed and jobs means an hour drive to get to. If you can do it and not have to much difficulty.... you ARE doing better than your parents. Or are you one to chase down the McMansion, newest forms of communication and sets of wheels...... I always refer back to NEEDS and WANTS and the intelligence to know the difference.
 
 

Well, if you're talking about total societal collapse (?), there is a big difference sometimes between one's vocation and their survival skills. But I live in an urban area, so regardless of my dedication to self-sufficiency and my (micro) homesteading, if anything really bad happens...I'm pretty much screwed.

[lifefeedsonlife]

Lifetime - gotta agree with you on that point. My wife and I scaled back so she could stay home with the kids. We felt it was more importnat for them to have that type of stability as opposed to a more materially oriented lifestyle. Between she and I working - we were able to buy more shit - but were tired as hell - and in the end - the kids would literally be raised by other folks than us.

Which is another reason we're choosing the homeschooling route.

It's a choice. One that I'm grateful I can afford to make. It's hard though sometimes . . . we don't have money for vacations or anything, but it's not something we whine about, because we know it's a choice. We're rich in other ways . . . ultimately more important ones in my opinion.

Was kiddin' about the grandmothers thing ya know. Some typos are just kinda funny.

[beanie]

Everyone is different in how they measure "status". Some people are really into trying to impress others or make them envious of their "lifestyle". I never grew up in that environment - in fact, until I was eight years old my fractured little family either was on welfare living in section 8 housing or crowded into a two-bedroom apartment with members of my extended family while my mother worked to get back on her feet after we left (more or less fled) PA. Then my mom met and married someone with a strong work ethic who was very good at managing their finances, and my parents were frugal and lived well within their means while I was growing up. They live pretty well now, and can afford most of their "wants". My in-laws are different...I feel like they have "Keeping up with the Joneses" and entitlement issues. Which could be why they overextended on a mortgage that they had to default on while they piddled away a large amount of money from an inheritance (that they have literally *nothing* to show from) and just came out of bankruptcy proceedings. They haven't made a mortgage payment in well over a year, but can somehow still afford to go out to dinner a couple nights a week, attend MLB games a couple times a month, get new cell phones, take little vacation trips and stay at hotels on the beach. They had a "lifestyle" prior to their current economic problems (which had been brewing for a long, long, time, actually), and are very reluctant to scale that back. I guess they can afford it even more now, living in a house for nothing and all of their debt forgiven. My husband and I have friends who make what we consider strange financial decisions, and we watch as they choose to buy a Wii to make their kids "happy", then get their only working car repoed when they can't make the payment. We live within our means, and all of our bills are paid on time with some left over, and even with my husband's love of gadgets and bright, shiny new tech, our finances aren't that tight so that all of our needs are met, and some of our wants are covered. We both work (on occassion one or the other of us has worked two jobs for extra spending money or turned a "hobby" into a part-time paying gig), but if one of us were in the  position of being out of work suddenly, either by choice or circumstance, we have some vanity expenses that we could easily drop and resources that we could access to cover bills. It would be tight, and probably stressful, but we've figured out that it's doable. Thankfully, I've never been in the position (yet) of losing a job unexpectedly or had to borrow money from anyone, let alone from my parents, although they made it possible for my husband and I to get a house when we were in our early twenties by offering us an amazing deal. We had to qualify for loan and pay the mortgage ourselves, of course...

[Lifetime]

Hey..... my skin isn't that thick LOL but...will say...if Gramma was alive and saw that...we would both be beat. 
 
 

Lifetime - gotta agree with you on that point. My wife and I scaled back so she could stay home with the kids. We felt it was more importnat for them to have that type of stability as opposed to a more materially oriented lifestyle. Between she and I working - we were able to buy more shit - but were tired as hell - and in the end - the kids would literally be raised by other folks than us.

Which is another reason we're choosing the homeschooling route.

It's a choice. One that I'm grateful I can afford to make. It's hard though sometimes . . . we don't have money for vacations or anything, but it's not something we whine about, because we know it's a choice. We're rich in other ways . . . ultimately more important ones in my opinion.

Was kiddin' about the grandmothers thing ya know. Some typos are just kinda funny.

[NightmarePatrol]

My wife cannot work due to severe fibro, So she is a domestic engineer of sorts. We have what we need with a few wants in there as well. Out lifestyle is mostly comfortable. I can't complain much about it really. I would like to leave this world with the knowledge that my kids have the ability to support themselves, care for themselves and those in their lives. I would also like to leave them with something for a rainy day. However the reality is that as our lifespans increase this will become a near impossibility.

So did anybody see that Iran first said the attack on Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was work of Israel. They later denied that it even happened. Do they seriously think we are going to believe Israel would go all that way to lob a grenade at him?

[beanie]

If it had been Israel, it wouldn't have been a grenade. And it wouldn't have failed. 

[NightmarePatrol]

[lifefeedsonlife]

I find that appointment keeping in the fine tradition of American nepotism and cronyism, which is - apparently - change we can believe in.

[NightmarePatrol]

I find that appointment keeping in the fine tradition of American nepotism and cronyism, which is - apparently - change we can believe in.

I guess I should of tossed my name in the hat then.

[Puffin]

I have two young children that are going to be asking me what should I do when I grow up? The choice will be theirs, but the question is going to come to me eventually....  So what do I tell them?

One way or another MP, give them as many experiences as you can. Get them a college education. As bad as this economy is the unemployment rate for college grads is 4.4%. For women college grads it's 4%. That shows skills are important. Healthcare and Technology are actually hiring.

[Lifetime]

I agree with you. In fact.... if you are going for a tech job with formal education... let it be in the fields of medicine...not so much a doctor unless you want to be one for reasons other than filling the bank. Our population is going to come to a point soon where those over 60 may be equal to if not more than those under 60. This equates in a MARKET.... MEDICAL CARE AND PRODUCTS to keep us ALIVE and as well as possible. It will become an industry. Short of the manufacturing of Soylent Green.... it may be a good vocational choice.
 
What I am seeing.... Be prepared to take pay cuts or lower wage to get a job.... this is a double edged knife at best...
 
Hire more people at the lower wages??? Well that means no increase and in some cases LESS TAXES at all levels which....now follow me..... means the taxes will (have to) increase to supply an increasing population with Government services. So let me see.... make less money, pay more tax, standard of living goes which way? Employment/unemployment numbers are a smoke screen at best. "More jobs created!" Lets look at this.... say a county ( you can find this info on the net) had 100,000 jobs. They lose 40,000 but got back say.... 60,000. Ok we now have 120,000 people working... But say that what we lost was good factory jobs at say paid wages of $30 per hour full time ( 40 hours) are now $12-$14 per hour 32 hours ( considered full time in Gov't figures.) What was the gain, what is the real tax base and how much taxes are lost ( to be increased later)? and How do you think that affects the standard of living. Less wages mean buying less or less expensive. Less for housing, clothing, food and if this admin doesn't work right... medical.
 
All of this shows we have MORE jobs but...what are the real total values as in spendable income do they actually indicate. A while back...several decades ago whjen the Steel Mills hit the skids in our area, I did a search.... we did have MORE jobs but.... they generated about 3/4 the actual income we had. A plus? or is it a beancounter's dream???
 
 
 
 
 

[TiFeMb]

I just drove from Fl to VA to MI to TN to Fl. I couldn't believe how many jobs were available. I actually saw a sign at a grocery distribution center that said 'NOW HIRING call xxx-xxxxx' facing the interstate. Detroit is rebounding and rehiring autoworkers and parts manufacturers, and a lot of good paying jobs out there. Nashville is BOOMING. Ky not so much. Va is a bit depressed in the rural areas but everyone I spoke to there had a job or could find one.
I didn't go through PA but it seems from y'all's comments that it's best to steer clear.
btw, still working 3 jobs    and I don't have any competition at any of them.
The economy is catching up, and the oil spill is under control. I'm going to smile a bit and hug someone.

[lifefeedsonlife]

Good to hear Tife! Good to hear.

I just entered the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee contest to have dinner with President Obama and Speaker Pelosi in Los Angeles! (No campaign contribution necessary of course.) I hope I win!!!!