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[Lifetime]

Whoda thunk huh???  No tax base to think of and where did they think the money had to come from?
 
I was one who questioned the need of a school building being built and was informed that because they let the other building fall into disrepair and lack of upgrades because of decisions made by higher ups..
 
I found this whole thing an exersize in futility when I attended the first meetings. Case Avenue use to be the Senior High School... 10-12. In 1966 we graduated well over 350 Seniors...largest graduating class in Sharon. Then they built another High School in the mid 70's and I think the last class graduating from Sharon was less than 200 I think... Does this show a lower student population or...... drop outs are up?
 
My question was, How much "bricks and mortar" do we need for LESS children? We passed on existing buildings ( schools) that were sold and used up until the occupants left not too long ago. Well I am no engineer or designer but.... my Pesos are going into this. I see 2 mils this year and again next and the next. My questions to the authorities.... WHAT DOES YOUR TAX BASE LOOK LIKE NOW??? and WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE IN THE FUTURE??? We have far too many people using the system that don't contribute to it and from where I stand... seeing this continue to erode. Sharon is hemorraging and no one has the cajones to step in and stop the flow. Yes, my glass is half empty and going lower.

[JimV]

Why is Sharon always singled out when it comes to school spending and tax increases?
 
*Hermitage spent millions upon millions of dollars overexpanding its high school, then closing an elementary and middle school and building a new school.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*Sharpsville shuttered two elementary schools--both newer and in far better condition than Case--and built a new one, resulting in its distinction of having the highest school tax rate in Mercer County.  Of the two closed schools, one was later destroyed by fire and the other is still maintained as offices by the district...at taxpayer expense.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*Farrell just completed a multimillion-dollar renovation of its physical plant.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*West Middlesex built a new athletic complex and dumped millions into Oakview Elementary.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*And just over the line in Ohio, the adjacent school districts of Brookfield and Joseph Badger--whose COMBINED school population is lower than that of Sharon City--recently shed all of their buildings in favor of brand-new K-12 complexes.  Nobody seems to bitch about that--in fact, the voters there approved large levies for the projects.
 
All of these districts have the same issues that Sharon faces--namely stagnant tax and population bases--yet nobody seems to find fault with their spending.  So what's the difference?  Is it because the other districts, with the exception of Farrell, have fewer low-income and minority students than Sharon does?  Some people do think that only white, upper-middle-class children deserve good schools, but I'm merely hypothesizing here.  One thing that's certain, though, is that issues of parochialism and short-sightedness are certainly not unique around here.
 
I'm not defending Sharon's Board of Education, but I do feel they're making the best possible decision at the present time regarding a problem that has no easy fix.  The ideal solution would be to go back in time and reverse the 1982 decision that created Case Avenue Elementary in the first place, but since even Cher can't turn back time, the only other options are to renovate or rebuild.

[Lifetime]

I don't know if you catch my drift or what.... MY POINT..... look at the damned tax base for Sharon for once. We have no real industry that pays like it use to (wages or Taxes)..Westinghouse, Sawhill.... it isn't there... now add to the OBVIOUS loss of TAX paying residents... now add to that those on government HANDOUTS and no homes or even a modicum of loyalty to live and stay.... Yours or any other community on this leaking boat cannot sustain all of this crap. Hard decisions have to be made but it can't happen until ALL of the communities are in dire straits an in no position to do any bitching about what community is better than others.
 
JV, I know you back the crap out of anything happening but we are painting a skunk, no matter how you do it...short of AHOLES in charge coming to the table for the citizens and not their preception of POWER.....it still stinks. I am not going to argue this because in my heart and soul I see this to be true.
 
I am not an optimist if I am hanging on the slippery edge of a meat grinder and about to lose my grip. You can chase your miracles if you want...we have correctable problems in this area and no new school is going to correct that. What needs done is to change the way we are visioning this.
 
I was a proponent of Consolidation...at least the schools but hoped the communities. It turned into a piss fight with "we don't want poor people..." or we don't want YOUR problems..." So..continue to build and not worry about the base, go ahead and pave without the base and spend like drunken sailors without a base. Proof to me is the stream of FOR SALE signs in one of Sharon's more affluent areas, of which I discussed with our City Manager. Jobs are good but if you don't ATTRACT people, your base for projects is weak and we cry to an ever increasing controlling government for help... So, in the end who has who by the short hairs???
 
I've lived here all my life and have NEVER seen any of this here. Empty store fronts on Sharon Downtown, and Hermitage...you are in the same boat...you just have yours hidden better. Farrell's business section is tore down... We are all in a bad way and we want the cart before the horse.... paint/build/pave and they will come??? I am sorry...we do not live in a movie. People, contributing people, are the base. Try to build that or cut and consolidate your government bodies. Just because others don't complain right now..... they will when the windpipe is gripped even harder.
 
And as far as the other communities "bitching" I have seen it..even on the front page of the rag we call the Herald and heard it on the radio... artificial turf to personnel in Ohio.. They weren't quiet, just too few, too late and the dollars are still being thrown out the window. Go to City, Borough, meetings and see how many people go and then see how a few make the decisions..... I have seen this, why haven't you. And it isn't a Balck White issue..... it is a MONEY issue...be it PAID taxes and fees and a base that can afford it. It isn't hard to see we don't generate money and have to beg the Government for anything and we are losing what base we had. I wonder what the last thought will be as the last drop of blood is dripping to the floor.... Shoulda, woulda, coulda....
 
Maybe I am getting you wrong. If I am, I am sorry...
 
 

Why is Sharon always singled out when it comes to school spending and tax increases?
 
*Hermitage spent millions upon millions of dollars overexpanding its high school, then closing an elementary and middle school and building a new school.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*Sharpsville shuttered two elementary schools--both newer and in far better condition than Case--and built a new one, resulting in its distinction of having the highest school tax rate in Mercer County.  Of the two closed schools, one was later destroyed by fire and the other is still maintained as offices by the district...at taxpayer expense.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*Farrell just completed a multimillion-dollar renovation of its physical plant.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*West Middlesex built a new athletic complex and dumped millions into Oakview Elementary.  Nobody seems to bitch about that.
 
*And just over the line in Ohio, the adjacent school districts of Brookfield and Joseph Badger--whose COMBINED school population is lower than that of Sharon City--recently shed all of their buildings in favor of brand-new K-12 complexes.  Nobody seems to bitch about that--in fact, the voters there approved large levies for the projects.
 
All of these districts have the same issues that Sharon faces--namely stagnant tax and population bases--yet nobody seems to find fault with their spending.  So what's the difference?  Is it because the other districts, with the exception of Farrell, have fewer low-income and minority students than Sharon does?  Some people do think that only white, upper-middle-class children deserve good schools, but I'm merely hypothesizing here.  One thing that's certain, though, is that issues of parochialism and short-sightedness are certainly not unique around here.
 
I'm not defending Sharon's Board of Education, but I do feel they're making the best possible decision at the present time regarding a problem that has no easy fix.  The ideal solution would be to go back in time and reverse the 1982 decision that created Case Avenue Elementary in the first place, but since even Cher can't turn back time, the only other options are to renovate or rebuild.

[Jayhawk]

JimV raises excellent examples that it isn't just Sharon that is racking up the debt -- and taxes -- while at the same time the tax base and student populations are falling.

And don't forget to toss in the story today that west middlesex just gave raises of up to 16% to its top administrators. One defender said it was to keep competitive with same-sized schools, yet they never seem to have a dearth of applicants for administrative jobs (and still hire someone local in the end anyway)

If WMX and any nearby district were one, fully half of those top administrative salaries (about $250,000 plus benefits) would be unnecessary, as there would be no need for two superintendents, two dirs of curriculum, two dirs of special ed, two dirs of transportation, etc.

We can complain all we want about taxes going up and unnecessary building projects for dwindling students, but as long as there are 5 independent school districts within a 5-mile radius of sharon (not even counting brookfield), each one will have half a million in duplicative administrative salaries and each one will have its perpetual cycle of spending $20 million or $30 million on new and renovated buildings every few years.

That's the real story.

[JimV]

Lifetime, you and I agree on many things.  I will say, though, that I deeply resent your allegation that I "back the crap out of anything happening."  I'm not thrilled about tax increases and huge public bills either, and I'm FULLY aware of the limitations of the "damned tax base" of the city, but I just don't see any other plausible solution for the 600+ kids attending the ticking time bomb that is Case and who need better facilities NOW, not "in a li'l while" or "down the road a bit" or whenever we and those in neighboring communities can finally all set aside our petty grievances and work for the common good.  Maybe I need to, as you write, "change the way [I'm] visioning this," so let me ask, what's your solution for those 600 kids?

[Lifetime]

First sorry you resent... now on to what coulda woulda shoulda... but won't be happening because..well it ain't hard to figure out...
 
WE DON"T NEED A NEW SCHOOL OF BRICK AND MORTAR... Farrell has a school too big for all of their population but Nooooooo. We have schools built in the 50s that had served us then others and then are available..again.... All I heard about at the meetings at the Ed Center on Linden...." Wahhhhhh I bought my home here because of the school location...!!!!!". WTF?? Sorry but this is a money issue...credits and debits.
 
I will say...this is a done deal and if we are to reside in Sharon, we have to eat the decision of a closed minded school board... I was there and listened to this all. So, now we lay in the mud with the rest..... but mark this in your notes... 2 mils and 2 mils and soon you will be chasing even more of the people who thought they had a home.... out to God knows where. Then we will need more out of those left behind. Maybe it would be an ideal thing for all of us to go on the public dole... no taxes... no real home ownership, totally free ( not paid by us) Med and Dental and food vouchers and all the food pantries to feed us.
 
We allow the school board to force the children to cross state roads and unguarded railway tracks to get to school during the reallignment at a disregard for safety, and now we pull our pockets inside out why??? Because no one can come together and talk to each other. So... resent me if you will, but I think we are in this mess because REAL answers were thrown to the side. And to think people didn't bitch is so far off the mark...this is...those thatr bitched, weren't heard in the first place, so who blames them. My worry is that who will bleed after you and I are dust and a memory, Oh yeah..I forgot... our kids and grand kids. With luck though, they will continue what most of our local children do... leave when they are able. Can you hear that "
Giant Sucking Sound" yet? They "give" us back 10 buck anbd we rejoice because it costs less to flush, forgetting the original decisions were flawed and caused this price. Seems we are also dancing when Gasoline is "down" to $2.79..not thinking that their rush to price it at $3.50 was a plan to make us satisfied when the price stops 50 cents above the original price. We dance at a "savings of 70 cents when all along they planned for the 50 cent raise that they got. If this is the way we continue to think, we will be dancing at our own funerals and thanking our embalmers. We accept too much and expect the same. Sorry again that you resent what I said or say...as in all things... this is an opinion forum and we both express ours. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
We allow too much regulation..if it isn't the Elected part of our society, it is from those "appointed" to take even more of our livelyhoods away. It has creeped into our pockets through rules and regs at our places of employment, education and habitation. Here is a good one.... we of Mercer county, PAY an emissions test for our vehicles... as much as I tried... no one in power thought it odd that not one county around ours has this and...when was the last time a mill had a smoking stack here... Lets just say...it is a money maker for the state at the expense of many who can't afford it. They appeased the tree huggers who threatened to sue the state. And to add insult to injury...it is a vacuum test of our gas caps. We have accepted this, as we will accept the mils we pay. Apathy abounded when we had a dollar, now we lay down and accept the fate.
 
 
 
 

Lifetime, you and I agree on many things.  I will say, though, that I deeply resent your allegation that I "back the crap out of anything happening."  I'm not thrilled about tax increases and huge public bills either, and I'm FULLY aware of the limitations of the "damned tax base" of the city, but I just don't see any other plausible solution for the 600+ kids attending the ticking time bomb that is Case and who need better facilities NOW, not "in a li'l while" or "down the road a bit" or whenever we and those in neighboring communities can finally all set aside our petty grievances and work for the common good.  Maybe I need to, as you write, "change the way [I'm] visioning this," so let me ask, what's your solution for those 600 kids?

[Jayhawk]

Along the same lines, i'm not saying buildings don't wear out or that kids should be educated in squalor, but how is it that Kennedy Catholic's building is 45 years old and, to the best of my knowledge, has never needed/had 20 or 30 million dollars in renovations?

[Lifetime]

I agree.... but it seems to be the product of who wants what, who will pay for it, and who gets the pat on the back or kick in the rear. Oh and don't forget the CODE... yes.... old buildings need to be tore down..... not up to code.... Hmmmmm White House? Lincoln Memorial? Capitol Building? Ford Theater.... Empire State Building.... Nasty Old Buildings and strange unsafe construction.... I don't know but following the Money seems a good start. IMHO
 

Along the same lines, i'm not saying buildings don't wear out or that kids should be educated in squalor, but how is it that Kennedy Catholic's building is 45 years old and, to the best of my knowledge, has never needed/had 20 or 30 million dollars in renovations?

[Jayhawk]

old buildings need to be tore down..... not up to code.... Hmmmmm White House? Lincoln Memorial? Capitol Building? Ford Theater.... Empire State Building...

it's funny you would add this. I saw something recently on the empire state building being renovated (and of course never a thought of it being a candidate for demolition), and i realized it opened around 1930-31. Yet any school building built around then - and pretty much anything before 1960 -- is somehow irreconcilably obsolete.

yeah, there may be things like lack of elevators and asbestos (the latter being something you have to pay to remove if you stay or pay to remove before demolition; take your pick), but in general a building built in 1920 is probably more sturdily built and certainly more indestructable than something built in 1950 and certainly better than walmart-quality architecture of the 70s and beyond.

But somehow old=baaaad only in certain situations. And usually they involve local tax dollars.

[Lifetime]

A bit off topic but..... Did anyone notice the PA State Budget? Cuts in AG and some other programs but Rendell's Money Pit.... the Philly Schools....got a large increase. I hope everyone remembered what that school system was like under MAYOR Rendell..... There was NO bang for the buck then and same if not less now. Money doesn't make kids smarter... A real education does. It is proven that with all the billions we have sunk into schools and the administration there of, hasn't increased the learning level but the width of a cat hair. To me, this shows money is not the answer to a better educational outcome... Perhaps a relook at contracts, longevity agreements and my fav.... TENURE??. Good teachers teach, lousy teachers continue waste OUR money and our Children's minds. ( In NYC there are teachers, with TENURE, who don't teach ...for various reasons. They are expected to report to the schools everyday and they spend the WHOLE day in a room with NO children. Some of them draw over $100,000 a year and never teach or do anything but watch tv at best. So much for Quality.)

[Lifetime]

I know it seems weird but the Herald seems to have hit the nail on the head in the Sunday Editorial. It laid out the boon and bane of our valley school systems with what seems to be credible figures. The end game sure points to consolidation of schools and the DECLINING student population.... even down to a desenting West Middlesex School Board member questioning and voting against what appears to be a double digit salary increase for the teachers.
 
Children and adolescentrs need direction as they mold into what we ho[pe are adults. It seems strange to me that, given the priorities of importance.... we are lead to believe that teachers are the single most important thing in the forming of our children. Given the FACT that there are teachers who just shouldn't be teaching and parents who just shouldn't have had children.... I think 18 or more years with a young human being is MORE important than one who spends maybe 6 hours a day 180 days of the year with a young person. Parents are and can be teachers as well. Now I see the confusion...here we have the teacher plying the pockets of the parents/taxpayers....to be paid way more than ther parent/taxpayer can even hope to receive given the state of our demographics and economy. There aseems to be NO forethought of having the taxpayer, dig even deeper into limited resources, to give raises to a union that has NO clue of the nature of life of those who's children they teach. Even some in Congress see the situation better... legislation being formed to cut the wages of legislators 5% and even some who refuse their pay raises..albeit a few. We have a dilema to deal with... less children going to school and the "necessity" to build the city of OZ for them to learn in. Beware of anyone behind the curtain.... and become active. Apathy got no one on the lower end of the scale a damned thing. This economy dictates that we become.... not cheap, but frugal. This includes those who we elect to govern and responsible.
 
A question I will ask.... if that 2 mil is "ok" this year and next and the next as well as the las incriment in the following year.... , being that this tax increase is to add bricks and mortar.... who will ask that they drop the tax AFTER the building is paid for? There is an old addage.... the Government has never met a tax they didn't like. I would hope this could be the exception to the rule...don't find other projects to focus this tax to.... just give it back to the people. ( excellent example of a "forever tax... Johnstown flood tax.... check it out, follow the reasons and the history as well as the money it generates and exactly where it goes...TODAY. It may surprise you.) Cheers!