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[E-L Man]

I think Fred's beer days are coming to a close!

[gator]

If I was a betting man I would say that someone set him up for failure, you know Hey Fred we need this, go grab some petty cash and of course Fred being the treasurer he said sure. I believe their is a whole lot more to this than meets the eye. Morris Waid has been out to get Fred for years, why? Only those two know..Until solid evidence comes out and he is proven guilty or pleads guilty if it goes to trial, I am on Fred's side.

[Jayhawk]

If I was a betting man I would say that someone set him up for failure, you know Hey Fred we need this, go grab some petty cash and of course Fred being the treasurer he said sure.

Um, yeah, Fred, they're running low on supplies over in the food booth. We'll need at least $200. When you get a chance -- and it may take you several occasions to gather that much cash -- stuff a bunch of loose bills in your pockets. Don't bother putting a post-it note in the cash drawer to keep track of what you took out, 'cause you do the books anyway and you'll know what you spent.

And don't worry. Everyone will know what you are doing and that it's legit. Why, if this ever went to a grand jury, before they would charge you they would watch video of the cash-handling area and hear testimony “from every employee who handles money in the fair office during fair  weeks and the weeks leading up to the fair.”*

*quote from tribune 8/10/2010

[E-L Man]

Looks like maybe Waid "hit and ran".

[gator]

Looks like maybe Waid "hit and ran".

 

[Janetplanet]

Dunn's quote in this morning's paper is so arrogant.  He replied to the criticism of Wagner still participating in the fair.  He said something to the effect that people don't know how the fair works.  What I took it to mean is that he thinks people don't understand how the "old boys club" works.  Unbelievable.

[E-L Man]

The "Boys" have been covering each others butts too long. Out with all of them!

[Zipper]

I have had the pleasure of working with Fred, Boots, Ivan, and the others this past year on my project with the American Jam event. While I am not involved in their personal lives, I can say that what I have seen with my own eyes has been nothing but upstanding professional behavior, with regards to the fair, and with the people of Crawford County's best interests at heart. I've attended the meetings, witnessed the processes, and heard the arguments at the table among the board members while decisions were being made.

I don't pretend to know everything about any of them, one does not know what goes on in the mind of your own child much less a business acquaintance, but the overall opinion is that presenting the state's largest agricultural fair is an enormous project, run by men and women of experience and integrity.

Friendships do form when there are committies, people get to know one another, and if they stand behind Fred, it's likely because they have faith in his moral core.

Putting a camera on one end of a transaction does not tell a complete story. I am sure the accounting will speak for itself when all is said and done. I do not believe for one minute that Fred intentionally took anything that was not his to take and disperse in accordance with the operations of the Fair. But that's my opinion.

Also, it is my opinion that I find it amusing that that Jason Armory can point a finger at Fred and the Fair Board's decision to keep him on in the position of Treasurer, when Mr. Armory sits at the table with someone like Shiny at his Meadville City Council meetings.

[Jayhawk]

Putting a camera on one end of a transaction does not tell a complete story.

Though it's hard to imagine anything other than a single kind of "transaction" that would involve stuffing cash in your pockets without leaving a written or verbal record. (Remember, the AG said everyone else who handled money testified before the grand jury before the indictment was handed down, so anyone who knew.)

[Zipper]

Putting a camera on one end of a transaction does not tell a complete story.

Though it's hard to imagine anything other than a single kind of "transaction" that would involve stuffing cash in your pockets without leaving a written or verbal record. (Remember, the AG said everyone else who handled money testified before the grand jury before the indictment was handed down, so anyone who knew.)

Well, I was not a fly in the room, but just because they talked to everyone who handled money, that really doesn't mean much. Who knows what they testified to? They could put me on a stand and I would say I never saw anything inappropriate, but telling the story they would say... "Zip testified at the hearing". So what?

A scenario....

Say "Bob" was a vendor at the Fair. Bob ran out of change to make for customers, so he calls and asks "Joe" to lend him $200 worth of five dollar bills, which he would replace at the end of his sales night.

Joe goes to the cash box, gets $200, stuffs it into his pocket so as not to walk through the crowd with $200 cash in his hand, and the video camera catches it all.

Joe walks over to Bob, and hands Bob the money and Bob gives him a slip or receipt, and Joe puts that in his other pocket. After all, he's the treasurer, he knows he has a piece of paper in his pocket saying Bob owes him $200.

He goes about his day, never returning to the office to put the slip Bob gave him into the cash box, or becoming distracted so he forgets to do it, or feels it's not a transaction worth recording at the time.

At the end of the night, Joe takes the cash box on his way home for the shift, walks over to Bob's food stand to collect his $200,  takes the receipt out of his pocket and gives it back to Bob. The transaction is complete, and there is no need to record that on the books, as it was done in trust. The books balance.

The video camera only sees 1/2 of that story. It looks bad, but was it? Was it a theft, or was it Joe doing not only his job, but providing a service to Bob by helping him out?

Let's add a bit to that. Say Joe returns to the office later that night with pepperoni pizza for all the office workers, which he paid for with his own money.

Now, the office workers have not only seen Joe take money, but return with pizza. What are they to think?

This is likely what the Board meant when they said that people don't know how the Fair works.

[CindyLouWho]

If it were just one time I don't think it would be a problem.  Something about it all just stinks.

[Jayhawk]

Joe goes to the cash box, gets $200, stuffs it into his pocket so as not to walk through the crowd with $200 cash in his hand, and the video camera catches it all.

So far so good.

He goes about his day, never returning to the office to put the slip Bob gave him into the cash box, or becoming distracted so he forgets to do it, or feels it's not a transaction worth recording at the time.

At the end of the night, Joe takes the cash box on his way home for the shift, walks over to Bob's food stand to collect his $200,  takes the receipt out of his pocket and gives it back to Bob. The transaction is complete, and there is no need to record that on the books, as it was done in trust. The books balance.

Then this means cash is not being counted on site or by more than one person -- or it means a single person is entrusted with taking cash receipts home for counting. Otherwise, the cashbox would not have balanced OR the one or more additional people handling the money would have had knowledge to testify in Joe's defense.

Was it a theft, or was it Joe doing not only his job, but providing a service to Bob by helping him out?

It may be considered a service, but it's sloppy cash handling/management no matter what business it is or who is involved.

That kind of casual procedures can work with the right, trustworthy people, but proper records and checks and balances eliminate all doubt while keeping innocent people from being wrongly accused.

The list is long of vets clubs, PTOs, church bingo halls and booster clubs that find out that someone entrusted to handle their large sums of cash wasn't trustworthy after all. Good records and having multiple people counting and handling cash reduce the opportunity for trouble.

This is likely what the Board meant when they said that people don't know how the Fair works.

It seems more like people now know exactly how the fair works.

[Zipper]

If it were just one time I don't think it would be a problem.  Something about it all just stinks.

I agree on both points. Imagine the Joe and Bob scenario happening many times throughout the week of fair, whether it's change Bob needs, or burger buns for Mary's burger joint, or a golf cart ride for a needy fairgoer. That's the way the fair works, and imagine trying to write it all down while on the fly to the next crisis.... of which MANY happen during Fair week.... and all of them are just as important to the person having the crisis as the last one ...and the next one.

You have to have some trust, as long as the person is trustworthy. Apparently the rest of the Fair Board thinks he is.

And it does stink... because the event supposedly happened at the 2009 fair. Why wait until now to bring it out?

And then Mr. Waid resigns. Hmmm.
Meanwhile, the damage is done.

And Jayhawk, you are also right in that it would not be the first time someone trusted wasn't trustworthy, but Fred has been in office for 40 years. That's a long time to suddenly be accused of dipping into a cookie jar for ....crumbs.

[Janetplanet]

A treasurer has a fiduciary responsibility somewhat similar to the oath that a medical doctor takes.  These safeguards are in place and have been in place for a long long time.  I don't believe that this was innocent, I believe that this was arrogant abuse of a system that allowed it to happen.  I still stand by my statement of "old boys club" and will stand by to see what happens.

[E-L Man]

Does anyone know how much money is taken in at the gates and if so who counts it. How often is it taken to the office and who counts it there?