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[Jayhawk]

Why take chump change if you are in a position like that?

Because, until now, you could get away with it.

Why bring this out now... just two weeks before the Fair? It's almost too obvious.

Obvious that they finally had enough evidence to make a case, or obvious that they don't want to be victimized another year?

[Jayhawk]

In my hometown, my maternal grandfather was imprisoned for embezzling money from some of the town's pension funds. A total of $365K. ... He was a pillar of the community as well. Often lending to people no other banks would, helping businesses start - etc.

That's indeed a sad tale, sad in part because it tainted the rest of the family with its fallout.

It is hard to know why he did it, but nonetheless all his civic, charitable deeds don't make up for it -- especially when they probably were funded by the theft. And the bottom line is that the people who were members of the pension fund lost a third of a million bucks that belonged to their future. Who was there to lend them a hand when they needed it?

[lifefeedsonlife]

It is hard to know why he did it, but nonetheless all his civic, charitable deeds don't make up for it -- especially when they probably were funded by the theft. And the bottom line is that the people who were members of the pension fund lost a third of a million bucks that belonged to their future. Who was there to lend them a hand when they needed it?

Yeah . . . that's the kicker. Sometimes it's really hard to think about - especially the idea that some of the happiest memories of my chldhood were likely funded by those ill-gotten gains. I mean - cripes - I wanna be grateful for those experiences, but at the same time . . .

*sigh*

The people we love can be so disappointing - yet we love them anyway.

As an extension of this particular line of thought - reparations for the U.S. history of slavery is of interest to me . . . in that the parallel argument could be made along the same type of lines that I (and my cousins and our kids and grandkids) could be responsible for reparations to those effected by this particular crime . . . .

[Lifetime]

Please, spare me the Reparations crap... first.... no one in my family ever owned a slave... my family is mostly Indian and I ain't talking about Mookti from Mumbai. The other side was first Gen Greek immigrant in 1912.
 
Second.... I never got a piece of the Affirmitive action programs which offered up expensive eds to move into a higher end career... Isn't that the same as $ reparations? Or.... being put into a job because of the need for minorities.... not necessarily the best qualified or...in the military.... promotions when I was in. How far do we go with this? And...does anyone in this forum know of ANYONE who was a slave???
 
Maybe if the history of American Slavery, you could interpret the 14th amendment for us... it seems there is a difference of opinion as to the reasons for it and it's application today... I will also add..... I never had a Mexican/ any Illegal as a  slave as well. Call me a Racist if you must ( my family structure might not back your statement though), but this crap has to have an ending sometime.
 
 

It is hard to know why he did it, but nonetheless all his civic, charitable deeds don't make up for it -- especially when they probably were funded by the theft. And the bottom line is that the people who were members of the pension fund lost a third of a million bucks that belonged to their future. Who was there to lend them a hand when they needed it?

Yeah . . . that's the kicker. Sometimes it's really hard to think about - especially the idea that some of the happiest memories of my chldhood were likely funded by those ill-gotten gains. I mean - cripes - I wanna be grateful for those experiences, but at the same time . . .

*sigh*

The people we love can be so disappointing - yet we love them anyway.

As an extension of this particular line of thought - reparations for the U.S. history of slavery is of interest to me . . . in that the parallel argument could be made along the same type of lines that I (and my cousins and our kids and grandkids) could be responsible for reparations to those effected by this particular crime . . . .

[lifefeedsonlife]

Meant to suggest a topic of conversation - not advocacy on my part. (You do seem rather quick to jump to angry conclusions sir. I still think it could be your coffee. ; ) )

There are those that would suggest that reparations are necessary. What I mean is - if Mr. Wagner is guilty of what they say he's been doing, does he owe reparations?

Of course he would.

If he cannot pay - what then? There is community service or jail time. Still though - there is no replacing what has been lost, if what has been lost cannot be repaid in kind. Some folks would argue that justice has not been served at that point - so what then constitutes justice?

Granted - in terms of reparations for slavery, there is no paying back what had been lost. My argument against it has little to do with yours though. Frankly - I think the whole idea is a disempowering thing that equates reward to being disenfranchised - whether you truly are or not.

Happiness ain't slavery.

Wow - I really pulled a hijack to this thread.

Sorry.

[Jayhawk]

Second.... I never got a piece of the Affirmitive action programs which offered up expensive eds to move into a higher end career... Isn't that the same as $ reparations? Or.... being put into a job because of the need for minorities....

veterans-preference hiring at the PO, perhaps?

[Jayhawk]

I mean - cripes - I wanna be grateful for those experiences, but at the same time . . .

It's the guilt of suspecting that some of your joy came at the expense of others. Kinda like art museums discovering decades later that they may have nazi loot in their collections.

It's the unintended secondary victims like you that the perps never expected to harm.

[lifefeedsonlife]

Yeah - though I don't really consider myself a victim. Just a bit befuddled about it sometimes.

There's nothing so permanent as our past, but nothing so changeable as how we view it. I'm grateful - but sad sometimes . . . perhaps that makes me semi-well adjusted.

Still befuddled though.

[Lifetime]

Hmmm well let me say this...
 
I was Drafted.... yes, my own Countrymen and women thought that to be a great idea.... so... let's see.... I was working at Sharon Steel (finally) and making $5-$6 dollars an hour before overtime, bonus and taxes... still not bad for an 18 YO. Then.... I was shoved into a Green Uniform with $77 a month. Hmmmm Ok ... I accepted that but my creditors cringed. Now, while I was in the Machine, my Buds were still working the good jobs and even starting college. Ok now I am now re-entering society... I now have to get my job back... sans all the wages I lost while doing what my country.... and it's civilians "asked me" to do. And/or... unlike my Buds who went to college and now are ahead of me toward their degree and a better job.... I and many like me were years behind..and yes...again sans any income we could have had or aspired into with a sheepskin.
 
I and many like me "invested" and this is not an affirmative action program. It is back "pay" for services rendered for the WHOLE country, not just a particular group. And last time I checked, veterans came in ALL colors, races, sexes and creeds, etc. etc.
 
Add to this.... I had to BUY back my military time to have it actually count. I and Millions like me got NOTHING for free. What we got, we paid for.... in blood, sweat, tears, time and money.... so if anyone paid reparation... I think I did when I had to buy back my Military time. And in my time on earth, this only benefited ME and not my future family, unless you would point a finger at my family at the time which I had NONE at that time. Homework is a good thing... try it.
 
Reparations, affirmative action.... not even close to what Vets went through... different animal.
 
And while we are at it... do you or any of your friends have children under adult age at home? If you do or know...ask them how they liked those extra checks received for having those children from Uncle Sam. Hmmmm and it was "earned" how.... making sweet sweaty Monkey Love??? A check for being a prolific breeder? I admit...it wasn't a lot of money but.... that too was part of money I paid into the system and at that time in life, ours was grown and out of the house. My thought on this was and is.... if you can't afford them, don't have them. Why should you or anyone in this "program" take money from me to "help" you with what is OBVIOUSLY a very voluntary endeavor.... Now sir...THAT is a form of Affirmative Action. Was pregnancy an "OH MY GOD!!!!" moment for you and your partner? Well it was for me when I found out MY money went into YOUR pocket for your extra "snot bubble blowers".
 
Oh and yes it may be the coffee as well as my reaction to some statements.... I get tired of slapping myself in the forehead and saying "OH MY GOD!" to myself. Again... I have to recheck the purpose of the forums... If I seem angry...believe me it isn't anger more than a "here we go again" moment.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Second.... I never got a piece of the Affirmitive action programs which offered up expensive eds to move into a higher end career... Isn't that the same as $ reparations? Or.... being put into a job because of the need for minorities....

veterans-preference hiring at the PO, perhaps?

[Lifetime]

I agree and yet again... I believe Einstein said.. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." History, or our past, is suppose to "educate" us. Sometimes I wonder. Give a man a fish and he will feed himself for a day, teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. We keep GIVING and not TEACHING.  How is this Hope and Change working for you.... not so good for me. Befuddled here as well.
 
 

Yeah - though I don't really consider myself a victim. Just a bit befuddled about it sometimes.

There's nothing so permanent as our past, but nothing so changeable as how we view it. I'm grateful - but sad sometimes . . . perhaps that makes me semi-well adjusted.

Still befuddled though.

[Lifetime]

Tried it for a while...they didn't like what I said I guess....
 

Lifetime you need to host your own radio program… ...

[E-L Man]

WHYEEEE??      
 
 
Now,,,, back to Fred Wagner.

[Lifetime]

So....now back to Fred or should we speculate again on Bi-Polar? See, a starting point can take you many directions *S*.
 
 

WHYEEEE??      
 
 
Now,,,, back to Fred Wagner.

[gator]

All I can say is Wow !!!!   

[Puffin]

Gator, just take a couple of aspirin! I did.