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[Puffin]

I don't know about the emancipation issue, but the response from school seems kinda condecending.  However the objective point to this whole thing to me though is kids are coming to school without the fundamental/basic tools needed to perform, hence the notes home.
Who's personal responsibility is it to make sure when you send your kids off to school they are prepared for school. Parents, kids, teachers?
I'll tell you when I hear that teachers even have to send notes like this out, then I'm thinkin it isn't the schools or teachers that are failing. It's the parents that are failing. Personal responsibiliry is learned at home!
 
 
 

[Amidala]

Thanks, pest. All the teachers I know do care, a lot. Thanks, Puff, too.  The most successful students have caring parents. Read an article recently about how poverty affects standardized test scores. Really sad.

Not sure how the tenure works here or what it really means, so I won't comment on that.

I know ALL teacher retirement funds have suffered along with everyone else's these last few years, because the markets have declined.

Teachers have to keep taking courses/earning credits to keep their certification throughout their careers, etc.   In CCSD, our starting salary is a bit higher than average for the state to attract quality talent. Our top of the pay scale is LOWER than the state average.

The schools in the big city areas with better income sources pay MUCH more. And many jobs/professions out there pay much more, even some without a formal education. (Before the end of the manufacturing era in the US, I remember people talking in Pittsburgh about how much steelworkers made, etc. $50,000+ in the 70s) Teachers are well-educated working class people, that's all.

[Amidala]

American Bridge in Ambridge, of course. And the other companies in that area of the Ohio Valley. And you are correct, anyone has the choice to become a teacher... sometimes I think the bellyachers are just jealous that they didn't make that decision.

Public education is still the best way for an underprivileged kid to get ahead in the world. Before the advent of public education during the industrial revolution, many more people had very limited education. The need for trained factory workers was the motivator for public education, large schools, etc. It has served us well over the past 100 years.

[lifefeedsonlife]

Having the same type issue with the Vo-Tech.

Interesting. If my son were to go to a hospital and I were to go with him, whom would they ask for permission to treat if he was 19? (Assuming he was conscious of course.) So - a slip comes home that they say requires my signature for medical treatment in case he needs emergancy treatment. Legally - I CAN'T do that! Photo permission slip - same issue. (What if I gave permission for his photo to be taken, but he didn't want that done and he is of the age of majority? Think about it. Wouldn't that be considered a violation of his rights as an adult?) Understanding the nature / danger of the equipment in the shop - same issue. Do they require the parents of adult evening classes to have the same type of paperwork signed by the parents of the people attending them? Probably not.

It might seem like we're being a bit ridiculous about all this - but it's really a question of my kid's civil rights and his right to self-determination as an adult. The are portions of the Pennsylvania school code that stand in direct contradiction of the State Constitution. (Hell - there's portions of it that stand in direct contradiction to itself.)

So - I think maybe we're gonna poke at that.

Cuz we feel it's the right thing to do.

[Amidala]

Hey it's your time, Life.  Seems like much ado about nothing to me - but whatever floats your boat.

[Lifetime]

First.... let me say this.... Here in PA, I do believe the Retirement system of the teachers are...at least in my area.... under the stock market system but..... Yes the market took the hit...Here is the difference.... most anyone else took the hit and ate it.... the teacher retirement system...and correct me if I am wrong..... was refed with increased tax dollars from those who ate THEIR loss. It is basically the same system utilized under the PA Employees Retirement. So who makes up the retirement system for all the rest??
 
 
The other is this.... before you sign on as a teacher, you know what is EXPECTED. If you wanted reimbursed for education... maybe teaching isn't your cut.... My son isn't getting reimbursed for the college he had to have before he took his position... didn't expect it and knew what he had to do to get and keep his position.
 
Now I understand that better qualified teachers might be attracted if the salary is higher but we have a problem in this system.... Tenure is one.... but when I find that some school systems in the United States have teachers "sitting on their arse" in a room NOT TEACHING ANYONE and drawing a 6 figure salary... I have a problem.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/22/new-york-teachers-paid-to_n_219336.html
 
 
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/06/local/me-teachers6
 
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/education/article_e92caa82-69b2-5a08-a8fb-ff9bd5b802c9.html
 
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Rubber-Room-Doc-Reveals-Teachers-Paid-For-Nothing-90804024.html
 
Now I know this is shown to be basically in New York and California, but a few things come to mind.... How wide spread is this practice??? Has the Teacher's Unions become the OWNERS OF THE SYSTEM and not the people who pay them??? And this is beginning to look like the Court Suit System we have. Someone files a BS lawsuit against a company.... and the company feels it is cheaper to pay them what they want as opposed to taking them to trial. It sounds like extortion.
 
Now, I had great teachers when I was in school... hard and fair. I graduated before Jimmy Carter brought the Dept. Of Education, onboard and have seen the system become a money pit. I believe the States should be taking care of their own Educational system and not the Feds. I also think that if the PEOPLE are expected to take hits... it should be across the board in that.... If I am working and take a lower wage.... how can wages and benefits of those I pay for, be expected to rise? If I am unemployed/downsized.... my tax base ability is "downsized" as well. I also see that our educational systems across America are often caught up in expensive crap that "taxes" the people who pay the money going into these systems. Anyone see anything wrong with this system? Or am I the only one?
 
We all do what we have to in order to survive. The top of the food chain is directly affected by those on the bottom... plankton eaten by shrimp, shrimp by small fish, and small fish eaten by bigger fish and then the Shark.... so eat all the plankton and the Shark dies. Kinda like the organs argueing about which one is the most important. After the Heart, Lungs and Brain have a lull in their argument.... the anus speaks up and basically says if it shuts down.... the others die too. We all have a place.... our problem is that some of us think they are more important than others.....
 
 
 
 

Thanks, pest. All the teachers I know do care, a lot. Thanks, Puff, too.  The most successful students have caring parents. Read an article recently about how poverty affects standardized test scores. Really sad.

Not sure how the tenure works here or what it really means, so I won't comment on that.

I know ALL teacher retirement funds have suffered along with everyone else's these last few years, because the markets have declined.

Teachers have to keep taking courses/earning credits to keep their certification throughout their careers, etc.   In CCSD, our starting salary is a bit higher than average for the state to attract quality talent. Our top of the pay scale is LOWER than the state average.

The schools in the big city areas with better income sources pay MUCH more. And many jobs/professions out there pay much more, even some without a formal education. (Before the end of the manufacturing era in the US, I remember people talking in Pittsburgh about how much steelworkers made, etc. $50,000+ in the 70s) Teachers are well-educated working class people, that's all.

[Lifetime]

Age versus Responsibility level..... Hmmmmm
 
Let's see....
 
At 17 you can join the military and learn to kill people and how to use the tools to do so. (with parent's consent)
 
At 18, you can go to war... no consent needed
 
LOL you can't drink until you are 21 or buy cigarettes
 
At 18 you can sign a contract on your own and go into debt with credit cards and school loans.
 
Under law you can be your parents responsibilty until 26 for family health insurance and even as a college student.
 
Now this is scarey..
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Pennsylvania
 
So...can someone tell me when an adolescent becomes and adult?
 
 

[lifefeedsonlife]

‎"Of all tyrannies,a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis


I don't consider this particular issue "torment" - but I do consider it benevolent stupidity.

There's either an age of majority - or there ain't.

In Pennsylvania it WAS 21 until 1991, when it became 18.

http://minors.uslegal.com/age-of-majority/pennsylvania-age-of-majority-law/

[Amidala]

In most rural areas or poverty stricken areas, people who agree to teach there for a certain amount of time can have their loans forgiven. Not sure if it is state or federal funds; pretty sure it is administered by the state. CC qualifies as rural. Same goes for Doctors, ie Joel Fleischman in Northern Exposure tv show was sent to Alaska to do his time. Same goes for CC however, I know some docs choose to stay here and buy homes and raise their families.

Life, maybe the answer is to let your son decide if he wants to complain to the teacher or not, since he is of age and it is his civil rights being violated, not yours.  You making the complaint seems kind of antithetical, don't you think?

[NightmarePatrol]

Yeah, but Northern Exposure based their town on Talkeetna (where I spent a fair amount of time) and there's a pretty diverse cross section of socio-economics there.  I know what yer sayin' though. I don't know what the criteria is though. It's odd about how the age thing plays out between schools, legal system and when kids are allowed to make decisions for themselves.  There seems to be a very large area of circumstantial gray hovering over their heads.

[Amidala]

There is, NP, and I think it is because the gray matter of the late teen, early 20 something is still developing. Your brain doesn't stop developing until what 22? 23? Hence, some of these young people are mature and some aren't.  Some are hanging around the house longer or coming back. There was a good article in the NYTimes "What's with 20 Somethings?" (Title was similar, can't remember exactly) about how young adulthood/independence is being redefined.

I LOVED NX and I loved visiting Talkeetna and eating at the Roadhouse! 
I think population density has to do with the definition of rural.

[TiFeMb]

Life(feedsonlife): In short, I agree with you. your son could be drafted without your consent. He is an considered an adult by the State of PA. End of story.
 
I remember going into the AF in 1980, and being able to drink with abandon in Colorado, Florida and England. All I needed was my military ID. I get back to Meadville...carded everywhere. I had to get my dad to buy me beer.    30 year vet he was, he didn't mind as long as I didn't drive. Mom got irritated when I smoked though (they both smoked) which was kind of hilarious at the time.

[lifefeedsonlife]

Well - my son and I worked out our own compromise - cuz he's irritated at the school's line of thinking himself. (He is learning from his old man after all.) We'll see how it sits with the powers that be.

A thought about the Selective Service . . . if there's no current active draft - why do all 18-year-old male American Citizens have to register? And why is it only males when women are now a part of the fighting forces as well?

[Lifetime]

Not for not backing the idea of 2 years mandatory.... male and female... most physical disabilities do NOT prevent one from making a living... A person with one leg can still type...
 
I have spoke at schools and discussion turned to my thoughts on "conscription" and theyu got wide eyed when I chimed my enthusiastic agreement in such. We have too many :"kids" turned "adults" who cannot find their own arse in broad daylight with instructions and a flashlight. I think the military puts a sense of self reliance and confidence in them. It creates focus on the task at hand and not so much on self and singularity. You learn that your actions do indeed, affect others than self. Consequences and reward in the right measure, help mold that responsibility for most. Some, you can't help.... "You can't fix stupid" as the saying goes. Our future is in those hands.... directed rightly or wrongly. Sometimes it is scarey.
 

Wow...when did PA Reinstate the Draft... ... ...

[NightmarePatrol]

My wife echos you sentiments about the instilling self confidence. She said she didn't know she could do half the things she could until she got out of basic.I don't think I really grew up until I was 35 and some people may even question that. Would the military have fixed that earlier? I suspect yes,but like everyone else I have to learn lifes lessons at my own pace. Though a forceful heads up and mandatory structure would have probably been a good thing