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[Lifetime]

Will the North Koreans be allowed to bombard the South??? How long will WE as signed protectorates of the South use just weak words. This situation is totally unacceptable. My Daughter In Law's family is further south..Busan , but this is not good for the whole country of Korea. The War was never over...we are one of the signers on the TRUCE. 2 South Koran Marines were killed in this attack and many civilians were hurt and buildings destroyed.
 
I think we still have 20,000 American troops in the South. Will it take a death of one or more of them, to get more than words???

[lifefeedsonlife]

Probably.

[NightmarePatrol]

This is going to be interesting. China wants no more US troops in Korea. North Korea is on both China and Russia list of places to keep an eye on. You are correct, the war, police actions, political disturbance (c'mon, it was a war) was never declared over. The question I have is who is going to intervene first and when. I really don't want to see any escalations. Suffice it to say we don't know what WWIII will be fought with.However WWIV may just be fought with sticks and stones.

[Jayhawk]

Will the North Koreans be allowed to bombard the South??? How long will WE as signed protectorates of the South use just weak words.

But what's the alternative? A third, trillion-dollar war?

Why does it always fall upon the U.S. to save the world from itself? Let someone else fix the problem for a change.

[Lifetime]

No No No...you didn't understand what we are talking about... 3rd War? no.... this is the first one....Technically the Korean Conflict has NEVER been over, just suspended on paper. Sooooo we have been "fighting" this one for 60 years and no end in sight....
 
Hence our troops in-country as we speak. AAAAND... we are already "on the battlefield" on this one. Our dilema is.... when, what, how do we "retaliate"?? I think the ball is in NPK.s court now and what they do next may determine how we react. This Conflict is almost as old as I am and I have been in one and watched the rest.
 
 

Will the North Koreans be allowed to bombard the South??? How long will WE as signed protectorates of the South use just weak words.

But what's the alternative? A third, trillion-dollar war?

Why does it always fall upon the U.S. to save the world from itself? Let someone else fix the problem for a change.

[gore range]

....I'm thinkin' we'll defer to the Chinese to handle/control the situation ....

....the North Koreans depend on the oil pipe line across the Yalu River to receive 99.9% of their fuel and heating oil from China....

....when the North Koreans hose up the skyrocketing economy in China, China, has, as they have quickly done numerous times in recent years-

....shut off the oil pipe line....

....it's late November.....late November in North Korea....l

....they didn't have much ondol and fuel for the winter to begin with back in August...

....the North Korean may be nuts, but they aren't stupid....

....they will most likely negotiate (blackmail) the world once again for "humanitarian" supplies....

...and  world will once again like do so -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7069225.ece

....contrary to the North Koreans just having un-nerved western nuclear experts-
http://www.newser.com/story/105891/north-korea-nuke-facility-rattles-experts.html

....welcome to what those of us who have spent time on the peninsula as -...."the land of the not-quite-right" ....
[/]

[Spicoli]

Does S. Korea pay us to protect them or are we just doing this out of the kindness of our hearts?  Or is this just one of the costs of being the world's policeman?

[Lifetime]

Maybe a quick refresher on the Korean Conflict is in order.... WE are a signer on the truce , therefore have been and continue to be one of the Combatants.... that never really changed..kinda like a marriage that went bad but with no divorce but living 2000 miles apart. Fact still remains...you are STILL married, and at best there may be some agreements made. Maybe ...with South Korea it could be a part of an economic trade agreement... who knows. It was all part of a UN combat force, under the control of the United States ( McArthur and crew).
 
 

Does S. Korea pay us to protect them or are we just doing this out of the kindness of our hearts?  Or is this just one of the costs of being the world's policeman?

[gore range]

….the factual reality is-

…. by agreement of all parties involved, the US ‘contracted’ per the armistice to defend the Republic of Korea (south Korea) against aggression from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (north Korea), the People’s Republic of China, and the   Union of Soviet Socialist Republics  (at no financial cost the to Republic of Korea) and has worked in one of the more productive allied partner ships over the decades to assist the Republic of Korea  in developing and fielding a modern military order of battle, while reducing the number of US forces stationed on the peninsula by near 96%….

….factually, from D.C. to Pyongyang  is aprx 6,900 miles, and aprx 7,000 miles to Seoul; its aprx 125 miles from Pyongyang to Seoul….

….the ROK is slightly larger than Indiana in area, and the DPRK is just about the same size as Virginal and quite similar in terrain…. 

….of course, the irony is not lost that throughout the near 60-year old life of the US/ROK defense agreement, the Republic of Korea has become a tiger of economy in the region while the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea’s dependence on financial, military, basic food, and fuel support from the now vastly evolved People’s Republic of China, and the   no-longer-existing Union of Soviet Socialist Republics has for all practical purposes literally dried up and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a starving non-self-sufficient hermit dictatorial kingdom cut off from the remainder of the world….

….an estimated 3 to 4 million North Koreans have starved to death over the last 15 years, and aprx a quarter of a million citizens are in political prisoner camps….

….this is the most recent night time space shot of North Korea and speaks of volumes regarding the situation in the region-



….the area of nocturnal illumination in South Korea has tripled in the last 15 years….

….the north has nothing to lose and everything to gain in their well-documented ‘diplomatic dance of aggression’ in arm-twisting/milking the peace-loving world of what the DPROK can no longer get from its former allies nor produce itself, and as mentioned above, will continue to do what ever it wants within its rigidly highly controlled society to keep itself the center of the universe in their own minds….

….as to US/ROK trade agreements-

….President Obama just returned from Seoul empty-handed unable to close the deal on the 2007 ROKUS Free Trade agreement. On the other hand, we buy a lot of Korean products and send them a ton of dollars; on the other hand they do buy a lot of modern and expensive military equipment with those dollars…

….the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has aprx one million personnel in their armed forces, the Republic of Korea aprx half that; The DPRK has some what of an aging and un-trained  armed forces due to no money (but they do put the military in front of the citizens in terms of funding/planning), and if it comes to blows, the DPRK will rely on brut force and superior numbers of lesser-equipped well-indoctrinated troops to endeavor to over power the ROK - both its military and unfortunately civilian population….

….one of the significant concerns is the high number of artillery pieces and multiple rocket launchers the DPRK has for decades been installing relatively securely  inside of bunkered tunnels in the rugged terrain just north of the DMZ-




….  which puts the 10 million living in Seoul with in easy range of  artillery fire, and Seoul is one minute from be aerially bombed once the DPRK bomb-laden fighters cross the DMZ ….

….we can get a good handle on seeing the build up for an impending invasion of the south; however the artillery/rocket assault remains an unforeseen threat, suddenly appearing out of the non-visible, well-stocked, bunkered tunnel, firing two rounds and quickly retreating back in side the tunnel closing the heavy blast doors against the impending counter artillery attack; only suck magnified by a firing rate of a thousands per minute with the multiples of tunnels. At thousands of subterranean artillery sites….

….and of course, the DPRK has SCUD-B mobile launchers-



…. yea, the same as Saddam was popping off; granted the rocket only has a CEP of mile or so , but in the ROK’s dense population concentrations its good-enough for a 400-pound high explosive war head; though I don‘t think they will be quite as problematic as they were during DESERT  STORM due to terrain limitation on the peninsula….

….but then, downtown Seoul is riddled with rather extensive underground shopping malls which also serve as cross walks to keep the body count down in the Indy-500-like downtown cab traffic, which also, in fact,  are hardened air raid shelters….

….the big current question is the DPRK stirring the pot in light of the soon-to-occur succession of Dad to son #3 to re-enforce perception the military who is almost as-in-power as the Kim dynasty? Or have conditions in the north actually once again  deteriorated to the point  where it is necessary to distract from the failing can’t feed-the-people  refocusing it on the Supreme-Dear-Leader idol-worship Kim family dynasty “hey, they started it and were going to attack us ….

….hopefully China will constrain them quickly in order to bring thejm back into line to protect the bulging Chinese economy, as the Chinese definitely don‘t want trouble at home with the ever increasing number of Walmarts over there….

….on the other hand, the Republic of Korea, has a long, rather distinguished record of military restraint in the face of the DPRK’s many unprovoked hostilities over the decades, and have rather patiently invested heavily in the development of the economy in the DPRK in the hopes of furthering re-unification….

….how long will the DPRK be allowed to bomb the ROK?….

….as long as the ROK believes they can tolerate yet another of the DPRK’s knuckleheaded isolated hostile but face-saving actions,  in the ROK’s hope of advancing peace on the peninsula….

….the ROKs are some of the most patient people I’ve ever known, on the other hand,-

…. I’ve never met even one of them that I would ever think of going mano e mano….

[Puffin]

Have the South Koreans asked for help in defending themselves?

Has it been determined they can't?



 

[Jayhawk]

if, 60 years later, we haven't even trained the koreans to defend themselves so we could go home, what hope is there for Iraq?

[NightmarePatrol]

Tee North Korean military is over twice the size of South Korea's. Essentially though the military is about all North Korea has as most of their budget goes to support their military. In fact it is nearly as large as the US military and if they decide to go the US would not be able to make up the difference in numbers. Equipment would make up the difference, but still it's a situation nobody needs now or ever.

[TiFeMb]

Gore: I would like to thank you for the exhaustive point by point explanation about the situation in Korea. I would watch your show on Fox/MSNBC....as would many others I imagine.
I always liked learning history from my 'elders'    and respect y'all for everything you have done.

[Lifetime]

Basically the teaching of the Korean Defense forces is over but because of the agreement of the truce, we maintain and train our forces together. No one believes that the North Koreans COULDN't come over the parallel. Hell Seoul is just Artillery distance away to begin with. Seoul has almost HALF of South Korea's Population.... 10 million live there. An easy target and wiping out 50% of a country's citizens?? Hmmmm... tempting but... Our troop level there is from last I heard...30,000. Most are not near the DMZ... The 2nd ID was pulled and fight in SW ASIA.
 
We actually have a better tool than Land Forces.... The LARGEST NAVAL FLEET... the 7th. At the drop of a hat, they can pull the trigger and do more damage to the North than the Defending troops both Korean and American on land. But the 7th is there as a Mobile Force..and it covers places like Japan and all points in the Western Pacific... so it isn't just there for Korea, but it can be directed easily and swiftly. So... you want the troops out of Korea?? Ok if the parties agree.... But don't forget the 7th. People look at Conflict as being only a "land" war.
 
If you ever get a chance... try to go to Norfolk or a Fleet Port...San Diego too. Try to go when the Fleet is in, maybe get on a sponsored tour of say..an Aircraft Carrier. Each Carrier in a FLEET has upwards of 6000 men and women on board... I saw an older Carrier...USS America. It is HUGE and one of the OLDEST we have. I know members of the crew of the America and the Enterprise who have said that even though being on those ships..it is impossible to see everything, they are that huge. The new ones I can't fathom. Mini Military bases... generating enough electric, water and supplies to feed care for a large city.
 
So when you talk about our troops in South Korea... not so large of a number. I would guess... most don't even realize ...at this very moment, we have military in places you couldn't spell or at best think of and yes.... doing what some are doing there even now, are in danger and have died, but we don't hear about them as well. They are not the "Conflict Du Jour" or even on the menu for you and I to see.
 
The U.S. 7th Fleet is the largest U.S. numbered fleet, with 60-70 ships, 200-300 aircraft and approximately 40,000 Sailors and Marines operating in the region on a typical day.
In addition to U.S.-based carrier and expeditionary strike groups that conduct rotational deployments to the region, there are 21 ships forward deployed to U.S. facilities in Japan and Guam.
They form the heart of the 7th Fleet and provide a permanent, ready and highly capable presence, while reducing transit times and support costs by operating from overseas bases.
 
I was Army and 30,000 on the ground there are only time delay defense at best. We have cut troops in Korea.... but we have obligations as well. The "KOREAN WAR" NEVER ENDED.
 
 
 

[NightmarePatrol]

I remember the 5th fleet pulling into Anchorage. They lost two F-14's to severe winds in the area (in excess of 100mph) Nonetheless it was a very impressive display. I have a friend wo currently serves on the Carl Vinson (3rd fleet) and wears a green jersey. Cool job, but dangerous.

North Korea could launch an attack but the price to pay would be severe.There's also a lot of aircraft stationed in Alaska that could get there pretty quickly as well.