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[Lifetime]

I thought I would share this with the Forum. I know there are more than a few that may find this informative.
 
What makes me grimice is when someone tells those who fret over COLA... "quitcherbitch'n"... Well... if your food, fuel, utilities and medical were the same as in 2008, maybe that holds water. As it is...the CPI is from , I think 1975... and the true Cost of Living has changed dramatically. Just to mention a few... sewage bills, garbage bills, higher copays in ALL insurances ...
 
COLA is and was meant to bring the level of buying power... now get this... UP to the level and evening out the lower level the recipient has had to make up for, the prior year. It is NOT a RAISE. But...as soon as COLA is paid out... what happens??? Those who did NOT need COLA to set prices.... then RAISE prices..good example is food staples...like bread, milk etc. So those getting COLA are back in the same place they were the day before the COLA was implimented. Does anyone see the viscious circle this has been... Even Medicare takes it's portion right after... they raise their costs as well.
 
I admit...there are those who do receive those payments that get the COLA, can do ok..even without the COLA. We are usually talking about Government Retirees to include Military, Disabled...both Veterans and Civilian and those on Social Security. Some of these recipient though.... do have to count the pennys and are on a very tight budget. And I hope those who are not in those catagories because of age or circumstance, will rethink , before they are.
 
 
http://www.moaa.org/colawatch
 
 
 
 

[NightmarePatrol]

For those of us that are still in the work force the lack o COLA has been painfull. Where I'm at if you walk on water you can get 3 percent. If you can teach someone to walk on water you can get 4 percent. The latter sample comprises a handfull of people. This has been going on now for 5 or six years. My pay has not kept pace with the cost of things. My situation is not unique either. I know there are people that make far less than I do that are feeling the squeeze even harder since their 3 percent is less than mine.

At the moment there seems to be no end to this. There's a lot of people and families out there that are circling the drain. I don't have a solution either. I hope someone does though.

[lifefeedsonlife]

Add QE2 and possibly QE3 to that equation and you have a recipe for raising the poverty guidelines.

[Jayhawk]

What makes me grimice is when someone tells those who fret over COLA... "quitcherbitch'n"... Well...

I've had my pay CUT by my employer for the past 3 or so years, and even the token 2% raises were were getting evaporated about 5 years ago. I won't even get into what dividend cuts during the market meltdown did to my stock investments or what the meltdown did to my 401k (newsflash: most of us aren't offered pension plans anymore)

The net result is that my total income has been about 10-15% LESS than i was making 5 years ago. And guess what? I'm paying more for gas, bread, sewers and everything, too.

So as for the retiree COLA situation, on behalf of myself and others who are in a far worse shape, I offer a collective boo hoo.

[lifefeedsonlife]

I ain't gonna be able to retire. I've resigned myself to it. Thing is - i'd like to be able to keep a little more of what I've earned . . . but it's bein' popped into mandatory SS taxes. Essentially the Federal mandated Ponzi scheme (that's illegal if anyone else does it) is paying for folks NOW - but by the time I get there - there won't be anything left . . . despite my paying into it. It's not going to stay solvent.

So - I'd appreciate not being lied to. I don't mind paying a tax to help older folks or folks with disabilites to survive and get by . . . I really don't. But what I DO mind is being told it'll be the same for me when it's 'my' turn . . . because I'm smart enough to know better.

So - eliminate my current contribution, convert it to a lesser tax of some sort. Create a cut-off date for Social Security's discontinuation and allow me at least some money to save for myself so that I won't have to work full time - but maybe part time somewhere . . . .

[Lifetime]

Boo Hoo to disabled Veterans??? Thank you... And.... you can at least talk to your boss about a raise...either on your own or collectively... those on fixed income... Social Security and Disability... well I don't think they can. Remember your BOO HOO when you are in their boat....
 
And what is your problem with retirees??? These are still some of those who retired before YOU got your first paycut. So..BOO HOO to them??
 
 
Oh,and yes I am retired... Disabled and drawing my Social Security... You have no idea of what I pay out of those items. With all of my figuring...I am losing over 8,000 dollars a year and believe me... my income isn't stellar.Even in retirement, I pay Blue Cross for my wife and I, I take a lower amount to roll my wife in on my retirement and I lost 60% of my Social Security under WEP. My wife and I won't starve if I don't get COLA, but it can be hard on many others. Pray to God you never become one of THEM.
 
Most retirements are now based on the Market so...we ALL took the hit. The way I see it, we are all in the same boat but we are traveling on different decks... It is only a matter of what deck you are on when the boat sinks as to when you drown. Some are in Steerage and some are on the top deck...where are you??? Now remember...no way is EVERYONE in steerage. And if the economy does pick up..you may again actually get a raise.... COLA just plays catchup with the 1975 CPI-W.
 

What makes me grimice is when someone tells those who fret over COLA... "quitcherbitch'n"... Well...

I've had my pay CUT by my employer for the past 3 or so years, and even the token 2% raises were were getting evaporated about 5 years ago. I won't even get into what dividend cuts during the market meltdown did to my stock investments or what the meltdown did to my 401k (newsflash: most of us aren't offered pension plans anymore)

The net result is that my total income has been about 10-15% LESS than i was making 5 years ago. And guess what? I'm paying more for gas, bread, sewers and everything, too.

So as for the retiree COLA situation, on behalf of myself and others who are in a far worse shape, I offer a collective boo hoo.

[Lifetime]

Here is a proposal I heard...EVERYONE pays into Social Security... even the millionaires. As those whose income goes above the income level picked for cut off and they retire... just pay those people Social Security only up to the level of their contribution. So the money can collect interest but those of higher income can only take the principle. The interest earned over the working years is held in the system... Not perfect but it can reap extra funds.
 
Also, I don't know what your Manner of life is so my comment may be moot. If you want to retire and live VERY well..that is your choice. I only wanted to be comfortable and able to pay my bills.
 
Maybe our idea of retirement isn't on the same plain. I don't need a fancy house or car and my wife...God bless her...is "low maintainance". No Gucci or Hawaii and she doesn't know Prada and she does her own hair... HER CHOICE not mine. Sometimes WANTS and NEEDS get very foggy. For all who feel they have to NEVER retire... maybe your destiny is to die on the job. I have witnessed my share of those people and it ain't pretty. One died of cancer..and she was working full time and drawing her full social security because of her age.... 2 others... heart attacks...last thing they saw in heir life were the flourescent lights on the ceiling... another busted his ass on overtime and ended up with a very dibilitating stroke because his wife didn't want him missing work because of a headache. He went legally blind and can barely walk...and can't drive... Make the buck but no quality of life. Oh well...we all have our priorities I guess. Roll the dice.....
 
 

I ain't gonna be able to retire. I've resigned myself to it. Thing is - i'd like to be able to keep a little more of what I've earned . . . but it's bein' popped into mandatory SS taxes. Essentially the Federal mandated Ponzi scheme (that's illegal if anyone else does it) is paying for folks NOW - but by the time I get there - there won't be anything left . . . despite my paying into it. It's not going to stay solvent.

So - I'd appreciate not being lied to. I don't mind paying a tax to help older folks or folks with disabilites to survive and get by . . . I really don't. But what I DO mind is being told it'll be the same for me when it's 'my' turn . . . because I'm smart enough to know better.

So - eliminate my current contribution, convert it to a lesser tax of some sort. Create a cut-off date for Social Security's discontinuation and allow me at least some money to save for myself so that I won't have to work full time - but maybe part time somewhere . . . .

[lifefeedsonlife]

It's all a roll of the dice ain't it though? I'm not a person of great means - by ANY stretch of the imagination. In fact - I think I can actually qualify for food stamps - but I don't want 'em, because if I keep things simple, I don't need 'em.

I'm a pretty contented and grateful fellow (it's been a long hard road to this point and gratitude is a necessity in my life) so - I don't want for much of anything other than what we have now . . . so, hopefully - when the time comes, it'll be sustainable. And if not - well, I'll deal with what comes when it comes.

[Jayhawk]

you can at least talk to your boss about a raise...either on your own or collectively... those on fixed income... Social Security and Disability... well I don't think they can.

When your company is one notch from Chapter 11 and additional layoffs, you can talk and ask all you want, but it ain't gonna happen no matter what.

At least SS people have the prospect of -- and this almost happened a year ago -- of getting congress to override the system and offer Santa Claus COLAs from uncle sam's bottomless bag of money despite the way raises are calculated being a long-established rule that in fact gave outsidzed raises in the 4 to 5 percent range just a couple years ago (which no one seemed to complain about when the rest of inflation wasn't that high)

Boo Hoo to disabled Veterans??? ...
 And what is your problem with retirees???

No, just a general boo hoo to anyone who thinks they are the only one whose income is frozen or going down -- something that most likely didn't happen during their working years' incomes. For those of us working it not only affects our working years but also that we'll probably get screwed when it comes our turn to collect SS and pensions.

[Lifetime]

You and I are definately not on the same page...
 
You state talking to your BOSS and others in his camp... SS recipietnts have to talk to 535 people and one A-Hole who signs his name. It takes 3 years and more to get legislation because of the system. A Hell of a lot of people on SS can't work....ailment and age... but when you deal with a current employment situation.... and are healthy enough to work... you can find an additional part time ( and I see HELP WANTED signs almost everyday.) Or..you can try to find another job. People on SS have only one system to approach... some aren't even healty enough to be Wally World Greeters.
 
Now me... I worked at Generous Sharon Steel...I think we know what happened there...Chapter 11 is chump change compared to the hosing Posner gave EVERYONE.
 
Again... COST OF LIVING is not a raise.... and I agree the one a few years ago was high...by what you bitch about was 2% maybe. And your math is relative involves perception.... If you make $1400/month that amounts to $48... or a buck and change a day... now doublel the income..almost $100... and on and on. I don't now how much you make a month..but I have to think it is more than $1400 a month??
 
Now this..."No, just a general boo hoo to anyone who thinks they are the only one whose income is frozen or going down -- something that most likely didn't happen during their working years' incomes."
 
Again, a lot on this FIXED income do NOT have the means and health to add a part time job and every dollar they may get is spoken for... freeze the income and raise the prices and with lower income to start... each percentage means that much more.
 
I wonder if those losses in income you got from your employer brings you down to the level of some on SS or disability?? And yes... this didn't go on 10-15 years ago but it does now and it is noticed. Some of those on disability and SS went on those programs not thinking "today"would happen. Hind Sight is always 20-20. The problem is that most of them are locked into the program and have to deal with it unless....they inherit a million or so or win on the lottery.
 
So..you can STILL talk to YOUR boss but these folks have 526 to talk to. And these "bosses" couldn't even hold a Whore House together long enough to sell it for taxes. ( And they bought our car companies).
 
My original thread was addressing a possible 3.3... not BOO HOOs And I think there is a raise in the system for those at the "tip of the spear". All I can say is that I hope you don't end up in any of these situations and have to listen to another who thinks like you at this time. I hear too often "They might get [more than me] so Pizz on them." I don't have a clue as to your age but I assume less than I.
 
And I know you may not be the only one living in the negative... My income evel went down at least 10-15% annually through lower income and increased costs. I am not even factoring in investments I was able to put into the ..LOL....S&P. But... I can still enjoy a steak once in a while but that may be because... I lived BELOW my means all my life, married a low maintainance wife and have no car or house payments anymore... for now. I tried to save at least 10% of my income but that definately fluctuated and I found I didn't need the Caribbean Vacation or the McMansion. I have it good compared to a lot that I see. I am just a "Joe Bag O Donuts" and never looked to make a fortune on selling junk on Ebay, foreclosed property, or selling and buying gold. I am more the type like my Father... "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush." What do you chase??
 
Reality or "dreams"??
 
 
 

you can at least talk to your boss about a raise...either on your own or collectively... those on fixed income... Social Security and Disability... well I don't think they can.

When your company is one notch from Chapter 11 and additional layoffs, you can talk and ask all you want, but it ain't gonna happen no matter what.

At least SS people have the prospect of -- and this almost happened a year ago -- of getting congress to override the system and offer Santa Claus COLAs from uncle sam's bottomless bag of money despite the way raises are calculated being a long-established rule that in fact gave outsidzed raises in the 4 to 5 percent range just a couple years ago (which no one seemed to complain about when the rest of inflation wasn't that high)

Boo Hoo to disabled Veterans??? ...
 And what is your problem with retirees???

No, just a general boo hoo to anyone who thinks they are the only one whose income is frozen or going down -- something that most likely didn't happen during their working years' incomes. For those of us working it not only affects our working years but also that we'll probably get screwed when it comes our turn to collect SS and pensions.

[Puffin]

I believe, but may be wrong, but I think the point was COLA is not earned money.

[Jayhawk]

You state talking to your BOSS and others in his camp... SS recipietnts have to talk to 535 people and one A-Hole who signs his name.

The difference is you have a chance. A good chance. These are 536 people who generally will do anything they can to pander to the senior voting block, promising and delivering just about anything, regardless of whether there is money or logic to support it.

And what ever happened to the idea that SS was supposed to be a supplemental source of retirement income, not the only thing to rely on?

I'm sorry, but i return to my original point. I'm sick of whining from those on f-i-x-e-d   i-n-c-o-m-e-s as if they are the only ones whose net income and expenses are declining year after year. Welcome to the club. There are an awful lot of my generation doing far worse than i am.

Meanwhile, we can't even be guaranteed that SS will be there for us in 10 or 20 years -- let alone that benefits will magically increase year after year not because the SS trust fund is growing more solvent but just because retirees need the money. Sure they do. But the math just doesn't work.

In the meantime, we're ALL getting hammered these days, and in reality, the prospect for improvement for any of us isn't good.

[Puffin]

I agree with you on that. What is the purpose of a 401k . It is a supplement to pensions/SS.

[Jayhawk]

I agree with you on that. What is the purpose of a 401k . It is a supplement to pensions/SS.

Well, 401(k)s started as a supplemental, portable, employee-controlled investment account. As i understand it, they were never meant to replace defined-benefit pensions, but that's what's happened.

Where pensions once were entirely employer-funded or perhaps with a modest employee contribution, most 401(k)s are now substantially employee-funded when you consider that for the total account to amount to any meaningful retirement income source, the employer match (if there even is much of one) ends up being a tiny fraction of what needs to go into the account.

on top of that, i know of employers whose corporate-wide 401k contributions are about 1/10th of what they would or did pay when they were funding a pension plan.

On top of all this are employees who fail to understand the need to contribute substantially to the plan ("i'm 25 and years from retirement; i can't afford to") or who treat it as a cookie jar they can tap into for routine needs despite all the taxes and penalties they pay for early withdrawal, not to mention that they will be broke when they retire.

It's a wonderful system...

[Lifetime]

I read the posts and felt a need to explain some things...
 
 
"The difference is you have a chance. A good chance. These are 536 people who generally will do anything they can to pander to the senior voting block, promising and delivering just about anything, regardless of whether there is money or logic to support it."
 
ROTFLMFAO...riiiiight. They listen alright... Now we have "Obama Care" and inside adjustments to Medicare... Our costs have been proven to eventually go up and the Services and those who do them... diminish. It is happening already... Doctors who WILL NOT accept MEDICARE ...patients or payments. I am involved in a situation sort of like that.. I work with our local VA Clinic and it serves about 3000 veterans. It has enough of a case load to warrant almost 3 full medical teams. Each team WAS a Doctor and his/her staff. Well, now we may only have ONE inhouse Doctor and instituted uses of PAs/LPN/RN. Even my outside Family Physician and I talked about this and even HE thought this to be wrong. He said if he needed medical help, he would expect a Physician. It is to save $$$$ And this is a thing to come. There are less Doctors and especially those willing to work in what is going to be a messed up system over all. My parameters are mostly the Veterans Administration Systems but this is and will be part of ALL Health Systems. So, we old, gray and wrinkled don't get our way as much as you might think. We are all on the same sinking boat but maybe on a different deck.


"And what ever happened to the idea that SS was supposed to be a supplemental source of retirement income, not the only thing to rely on?"
 
On this statement..it was "originally" right, but times and circumstance have changed. One case in point... Generous SHARON STEEL went bankrupt. Many who had 4 decades or more in there...were looking forward to retiring on a small but comfortable retirement. And they paid into the SS system as well. Now Victor Posner goes bankrupt... courts found that the existing retirement funds set aside to pay those workers, became part of Sharon Steel Assets and. "POOF" All gone. Now those who could retire...did, but only through a Government implimented ESOP program. So, now...those who could retire and a few with lesser years were able to salvage, maybe, $.40 on the dollar. Now SS isn't a "supplement" so much, but an important part of the over all retirement package. This practice, by industry, is a large one and many still rely on SS because of this.


"What is the purpose of a 401k . It is a supplement to pensions/SS."
 
Again this WAS true. What made the 401k popular was portability. More and more, workers didn't have the ability to stay with ONE employer from hire to retire. They may have 5 or more jobs in a lifetime. And it became a RETIREMENT more than supplement. So we move to the next one...
 
IRAs
 
I think this one is totally funded by the individual. The accounts can be opened by both the Head of Household and the Spouse. Minimum contribution per month was $125/month ea. BUT... we AMERICANS have lost the desire to "pay ourselves" (savings/retirement) in lieu of new cars, bigger homes, phones that wash clothes and don't forget... those vacations to exotic locations. We are PISS POOR ...even when we had the money. The link below shows our "great savings habits diminishing and going to hell, starting in the mid 80s. This chart covers Jan 1959-June 2011
 
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PSAVERT.txt
 
 
Below are the various IRA Accounts and I think they even have one in Precious Metals.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Retirement_Account
 
 
Below is our GREAT AMERICAN saving rates. Note.... the poorest of countries beat our asses. We should be saving at LEAST 10% of our net income.
 
International Savings Rates
 
http://www.angrybearblog.com/2005/06/international-saving-comparisons.html
 
 
 
So, now we have to sit back and wonder..WHO did all of this to us. But... WHO was responsible to ..at least... try to insure and secure our future. We can blame the rich and the Government I guess, but we have to accept at least part of the responsibility.
 
Stepping off my soapbox....
 
Oh.. I fogot to mention these guys as well..
 
http://www.pbgc.gov/