Print

Welcome, Guest

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NightmarePatrol]

Well this article is not so much about things made here, but why one thing isn't. It's a long article, but it's very interesting.

[lifefeedsonlife]

The comments section is interesting as well.

[Jayhawk]

i like the matter-of-fact certainty of the statement that such jobs simply aren't coming back, no matter what.

the story really makes an impact and opens your eyes to the reality of things these days.

the reader comments are equally eye-opening. I agree both with the idea that another 60 bucks or whatever the figure would be a tiny price to pay if it meant iPhone manufacturing could move back here (which it still never will).

At the the same time, yeah, you don't have that kind of instant response/turnaround time over here because we long ago determined that it's not humane or sustainable in a civilized society to have what is effectively an enslaved workforce living in company housing and available around the clock on demand. Actually, that sounds like military service or prison work camps.

It's also hard to believe the efficiency and logistics of all this that i can order an apple laptop with custom configuration and 3 or 4 days later it arrives at my door in pennsylvania shipped from shanghai (this actually happened).

[Puffin]

A very important point that is overlooked in this case is the Chinese government is an active partner in every aspect of the Chinese manufacturing. That involvement is massive govt spending.
The mindset in America today is that they dont want the govt in anything.
Obama mentioned where he didn't want to lose the green energy business without a fight.he's right! Were losing it to China, same as this cell phone business. Hell, Spain is smoking us on green tech.

[NightmarePatrol]

Intel is building the largest most advanced semiconductor plant in the world in (I believe) Arizona right now. They are spending five billion to put the complex up. They of course are getting massive tax breaks to do this, otherwise it probably would have been on foreign soil. One of the biggest problems they will have have is finding employees with modern factory training to operate it. Granted, making semiconductors is a bit different than popping out toasters, but the number of qualified people that understand modern factories in the US is very low.  It's like taking an office worker who was using a tape driven calculator and IBM Selectric typewriter in 1975 and putting them in todays office. They know what has to be done but they know nothing of the tools they are supposed to use to get it done. The US has a lot of retraining to do of we want the jobs brought back here. Every aspect of the American work culture from government to the worker is going to have to bend more than just a little to make this happen.

[lifefeedsonlife]

And - the institution ultimately responsible for preparing the population for said professions?
Which brings me back to this!

[CindyLouWho]

Used to be you could take the business courses in high school and get a decent office job right out of high school.  Now their computers and what-not are so out of date that's impossible.  I dont even now if they offer business courses in high school any more.

[NightmarePatrol]

Computers are one thing. They're a tool. The key is that one has to be able to convert  an abstract process into tangible things. We used to produce both abstract thinkers, intermediaries AND people that would form tangible things and together make them better. We somehow lost part of the process along the way starting in the 1970's. I could start a big brew-ha-ha about how the labor unions got in the way of permitting change (they did though)  but I'm going to leave it at somewhere the ball got dropped by a lot of people. Things change in just about every job. My job is drastically different than it was 30 years ago and has new tools, new processes and ways of looking at problems. Some for the better and some not. But it's the way way it works. I saw what happened at Talon. They didn't update a damn thing over the years and now they are seen only in the history books.  Some businesses see and understand this, but I'm afraid most don't.

[Lifetime]

What I am hearing is the old mantra.... we will become a "Service Industry Society"... SERVICE.... SERVITUDE... We need to get nack to taking the "clay" and making something out of it besides ashtrays. We NEED INDUSTRY to manufacture items to sell..here and abroad. Service.. hmmm flipping burgers or clerk at 7-11 is a start but not the finish. We have the brains to think it..then dammit..WE should have the system in place to make it and market it.
 
Try driving a service or live in a service or eat a service... we need tangibles, not abstracts.
 
We have to teach something that cannot be taken away and can be done or used on an individual basis if the group thing doesn't work out. We need to build/manufacture and know the processes to do so. You can design and read blueprints but... can you build it?
 
I don't want our country to become known for "Tech Support". If schools don't have up-to-date computers to learn business affinities, some schools arrange to allow students to actually go to a Business school for class. We have kids taking College courses... at local colleges, while still in High School. Just my thoughts.
 
Where there is a will or need, there is a way. Paperwork is ok but we need to form things other than just ideas and instruction as well... like the best damned ashtray in the world or a mouse trap.
 
 
 

[Lifetime]

And those computers are made...where? We use to make tools here... think of Cresent, Stanley, Craftsman, .... What we have lost is the factories and facilities... we moved them. Whole industries are gone.... OUR industries. You are right, we need to construct and maintain the process from Idea to paper to machine to end product and have the market rich enough to buy it...
 
I loved Henry Ford's ideas on industry... He and his people designed it... and built a factory where Iron Ore and coke was shoveled in the back door and a finished product was driven out the front door. Completely contained Steel, Paint, Fabric ...everything. He may not have been the BEST person in the world but he had a basic idea of what was needed to put people to work.. Now we design it and send it out to be built...sometimes by countries who DO NOT LIKE US. Possible security risk??? Maybe. Fact... some of the Avionics in our most sophisticated military aircraft is designed and built by foreign powers... possible kink in our armor?? You figure it out.
 

Computers are one thing. They're a tool. The key is that one has to be able to convert  an abstract process into tangible things. We used to produce both abstract thinkers, intermediaries AND people that would form tangible things and together make them better. We somehow lost part of the process along the way starting in the 1970's. I could start a big brew-ha-ha about how the labor unions got in the way of permitting change (they did though)  but I'm going to leave it at somewhere the ball got dropped by a lot of people. Things change in just about every job. My job is drastically different than it was 30 years ago and has new tools, new processes and ways of looking at problems. Some for the better and some not. But it's the way way it works. I saw what happened at Talon. They didn't update a damn thing over the years and now they are seen only in the history books.  Some businesses see and understand this, but I'm afraid most don't.

[NightmarePatrol]

Try driving a service or live in a service or eat a service... we need tangibles, not abstracts.
 

We need both actually.  We sent our people overseas and taught them them the factory floor. They built factories and trained factory workers. They then started educating the population and got themselves the abstract think tank and those that bridged the gap between the conceivers and the makers. They then updated the factories and retrained their people at all levels. We didn't. Part of it was resistance from people and those who (allegedly) represent the people's interests. We are now mostly about the abstract. The service economy model doesn't work in reality.  It's short sighted and relies on the premise that nobody else but can service anything. Eventually we'll hear a big loud pop when that gets realized. If not, well we're headed toward being third-world faster than you know.

[lifefeedsonlife]

We f*cked up when we didn't listen to Demming and he went and took his ideas to the Japanese. That's 'part' of the problem.

[Puffin]

NP, the Chinese company mentioned in the Jobs interview is Foxconn which builds about 40% of the worlds consumer electronics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn

[Puffin]

We f*cked up when we didn't listen to Demming and he went and took his ideas to the Japanese. That's 'part' of the problem.

Boy, are you right about that!!!!

Demming never caught on here for some reason. I know about Ford adopting it , but here it was Baldridge, Sixsigma, ISO and others. But late. Like 30 years.

[Jayhawk]

The U.S. blew off Demming and his ideas but the post-war japanese became what they are today because they were smart enough to follow his teachings. If anyone earned the right to say "told ya so" it was W. Edwards.

Ironically, everything that he had to teach two generations ago is the same kind of innovation all the politicians say that america needs. Duh! You had the chance and blew him off.