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[bighair80s]

i grew up italian near cochranton... not exactly  like np's experience but as a kid it was pretty tough. we took some crap.

 as an adult near meadville i babysat biracial- (black father white mother) kids from birth to schoolage at my home for a co worker. i took them with me everywhere. i saw the raceism, experienced the hatred towards the kids and myself. it was many times from african-americans as well as whites for whatever reason.

the boundaries for racism are not so much on political maps or rand mcnally maps , they are drawn on marred hearts.

[CindyLouWho]

Genetic marker?  Interesting to think about.  Why do other animals seem to not have this.  I mean when a dog sees another dog they react the same no matter its size, color and what not.  You know - the bitty dog that goes ape shit with an I'm gonna kill you attitude on a Great Dane kind of thing?  They don't seem to know that he could swallow him whole without effort.  Having horses, I see the only thing that matters is if you are male or female and can I boss you around.  Horses see other horses as horses.  Same as dogs.  Same as cats.  They don't fuss over color.  Or size for that matter.  Fat dog.  Fat cat.  They don't care.  Human society sure does.  

[TiFeMb]

It's not genetic, it's learned. Ask any adopted kid.  I could cry at how loved I feel when my 2 kids (biracial, one hispanic/white, one black/white) look at me. They have total, unconditional love for my DW & I, and they only refer to someones skin color like hair color or something. (like: "I'm browner than so and so but she is darker than me, simple desciption stuff).

Pinball, I completely understand where you are coming from, & Murtha is closer to the truth than most would admit. I lived in Wilkinsburg for a while and the anti-white sentiment was pretty bad, I almost got jumped a number of times coming home on the busway from my 2nd shift job, and it wasn't a bunch of Rednecks.

On the other hand, I have seen people in Erie & Meadville stare holes through my kids at Giant Eagle and Walmart. WTF  I know the minority population is smalll in that area but maybe because so many people are so intolerant of differences, ANY differences.

What I liked about Murtha's statement, which should give us some hope, is that people are turning to Obama because he seems to have a better grasp on what's happening to real people across the country. So we are being separated socioeconomically instead of racially, which is an easier issue to deal with I would say.

*off soapbox*

[CindyLouWho]

Obama grew up poor and has worked for whatever he has.  He knows what it is to be poor.  He knows what it is to be middle class and he knows what it is like to have a little extra cash in his pocket.  He likely has a clue what it is like to live in this country from several angels.

[bighair80s]

i think it is genetic and learned. we are a grand pile of genetic material made by a the grand scientist...  the science of it adds a complex mechanism that adds wonder and splendor to the whole thing. if you look at the animal kingdom you can see how it works together in many ways. but i wont go into it all here, just watch some discovery channel stuff and see the interactions of animals to see how appearance can have a huge impact on dynamics of vast animal populations.

the kick is this. animal populations are awesomely in tune and although brutally violent at times, their system works in balance.  with us, there is something more, its a moral component, this ability to love, hate, good, evil, to want to know, to be... its what separates us from the dogs and cats. we just dont get our self governance right it seems, from global right down to our personal stuff, its ever present tension. its a grand mystery. the animals dont have that problem, we do.

[bighair80s]

when he made his statement he left out other examples of racism and other areas. that was the point i made.  this made him seem opportunistic in his statements and it seemed he made it for political reasons.

murhta appears an asshat.

[NightmarePatrol]

when he made his statement he left out other examples of racism and other areas. that was the point i made.  this made him seem opportunistic in his statements and it seemed he made it for political reasons.

murhta appears an asshat.

One of these ----->   

[TiFeMb]

nice job on the graphics there, system-man. 

[CindyLouWho]

Kinda makes me want to be a cat then.  They have their social system in order.

[Mr. Ripley]

I would first like to comment on the outstanding discussion being engaged in here. Happy to be a member.

I too have experienced racism and hatred in my life. I spent two years of my military career in South Korea, and I understand the things that pinball spoke of. Either they loved us, smiled and cussed us under their breath or hated us. I even learned to functionally read and write their language, but it was a losing battle. If you were hated, you were hated. I was unaware that the southern counties are still like that.

Genetic or learned? CLW brings up a good point about the animal kingdom, but as humans it think it is partly genetic but mostly learned. Different appearance may make some people leery of others, I think that unexplained apprehension is genetic.

But every country on the planet seems to have an oppressed minority of some sort, but it is not always a case of sight recognized differences. There are millions of anti-semites in the world, but unless you are dealing with very orthodox Jews you would be hard pressed to differentiate one from a Christian or atheist, but the hatred exists. That is taught.

JMHO

Mr R

[bighair80s]

i think that was what i tried to say with another of my word "casseroles"   no one can be sure. perhaps someone could come up with a bh decoder device...   

[shortcircuit]

Bh decoder device = chocolate fudge + Valium. 

[Mr. Ripley]

i think that was what i tried to say with another of my word "casseroles"   no one can be sure. perhaps someone could come up with a bh decoder device...   

Oh no BH, I think that you sell yourself mighty short. Your posts are always wonderful and I look forward to them. If you ever need a decoder device, it will be to help those of us who do not have your depth of feeling, or your unique philosophy on life. Chocolate fudge and valium is good too... 

I look in on alot of forums, there are none that have the consistent quality of posts or posters than this one. NP has got a good thing going here.

Mr R

[NightmarePatrol]

I get "casseroles" now. darn this middle-age brain slow down thing.  I do believe at some level we are programmed to be wary of other that do not fit into the same characteristic mold as ourselves. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it's a big obstacle and many people regardless of race, creed, etc. can't get over the hurdle. Some proceed to seek each other out and use that as a bond to further their clan like behavior.  Unfortunately, no good end usually comes from this.

I can only speak from one point of view. I got to live as a minority from 8 to 5 for eight years. Doing it full time is another matter altogether.

My cousin would have tons to say on this as he has lived in Bangkok for over 20 years and I'm sure he could shed volumes of light on the subject.

[pinball]

I don't think it is a genetic thing.  We are products of our own environment.  But if it is genetic, that would mean that one day there could be a cure.

TiFeMb, It's pretty cool you decided to adopt 2 biracial kids.  Makes you and your DW special people.  It's alot of hassle a ton of people would rather not want to put up with.  How many people thought you were crazy?  People staring is what happens.  Unfortunately  a couple of a$$holes sometimes wipes out a  thousand good people that you pass by.  You just can't let them win.