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Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« on: January 02, 2018, 08:36:33 AM »
I found this interesting seeing that Honolulu's Police Chief's office had presented the same option a few weeks ago. I know someone who works there and they found it sudden as well. Now PA.... I have to wonder how far this may go... maybe the federal legal usage of Class one narcotics... ???? or...maybe as far as alcohol??

As a Veteran who uses the VA Health System...this may cause a quandary with the use of Cannabis for possible treatment for PTSD at the State Level. Makes you wonder how far this will go... :o


Patients in Pennsylvania must choose: Medical marijuana or gun ownership
The Philadelphia Inquirer | Sunday, Dec. 31, 2017, 2:51 p.m.
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PHILADELPHIA — The town drunk can buy firearms. So can someone who has been involuntarily placed in a mental hospital for a short stay. But anyone who wants to treat Crohn's disease with medical marijuana is forbidden from owning a gun.

Pennsylvania is preparing to roll out a statewide program in early 2018 that will provide medicinal cannabis products to patients suffering from 17 serious health conditions.

But some sick people will have to make a difficult decision: Is taking the medicine worth surrendering what gun-owning advocates see as an enshrined constitutional right?

“It's hypocritical,” said lawyer Andrew Sacks, the co-chair of the Pennsylvania Bar Association's Medical Marijuana and Hemp Law Committee.

“You can be an opioid addict, or buy a bottle of rum, drink it and go to a store and buy one,” Sacks said. “But a person who is registered as a medical marijuana patient in Pennsylvania, and has a very small dosage of THC, can't own a gun to protect themselves or hunt.”

A state police spokesman strongly suggested that patients also consider the consequences of holding on to any guns bought before enrolling in the medical marijuana program .

“It's unlawful to keep possession of firearms obtained prior to registering,” Ryan Tarkowski said. “The Pennsylvania State Police is not in the business of offering legal advice, but it might be a good idea to contact an attorney about how best to dispose of their firearms.”

Twenty-nine states have legalized marijuana in some form.

But under federal law, all forms of marijuana remain strictly forbidden. The DEA considers it a Schedule 1 drug, on par with heroin and LSD.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulates the sale and ownership of guns and ammunition across the nation. ATF spokeswoman Cherie R. Duvall-Jones said any use of marijuana is a disqualifier.

“There are no exceptions in federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by state law,” said Duvall-Jones.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2016 that the federal prohibition does not violate the Second Amendment.

The NRA has remained silent on the issue. A spokesman did not respond to a request for comment.

Gun dealers were sent an ATF bulletin in 2016 that left no room for loopholes. A dealer who even suspects that a customer may be using cannabis is obliged to stop a sale, ATF's Duvall-Jones said. Federal regulations bar firearms ownership to anyone who illegally uses a controlled substance or might be addicted to any drug.

Alcohol is not considered a controlled substance, Duvall-Jones said. “Therefore, a person who is addicted to distilled spirits, wine or malt beverages would not be prohibited” under the law.

A federal judge in Pittsburgh ruled in December that the government could not restrict the gun ownership rights of a man who had been involuntarily placed in a psychiatric hospital.

In Pennsylvania, firearms dealers must conduct a background check on each customer. A registry, administered by the state police, identifies medical marijuana patients.

“If you're a card holder, you'll be flagged,” said state police spokesman Ryan Tarkowski.

But even before the background check is run, all customers must fill out a Form 4473, a firearms transaction record required by the U.S. Department of Justice.

One yes/no question asks:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance? Warning: the use of possession marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

“It's game over if you check ‘yes,'” said Jim Benoit, owner of Cajun Arms in West Chester. “I can thank you for coming by, but I'll have to tell you I can't sell you this gun.”

Patients also may be required to surrender guns and ammo bought before joining the marijuana program, whether they are using the medicine or not. Police in Honolulu fired off letters in December to patients ordering them to turn in their weapons. The following outcry had the department put the order on hold two days later. No other jurisdiction has made a similar request.

The issue has been a hot-button topic in New England states that have legalized marijuana, said Becky Dansky, legislative counsel of the national Marijuana Policy Project, which opposes prohibitions.

“The compromise most of those states are reaching is ‘no new guns for patients,' but they're not tracking down guns and asking them to be surrendered,” Dansky said.

Commenters on one Second Amendment online group had mixed feelings about the law.

“How far of a jump is it to extend this process to other medications?” said Cephas, a longtime member of the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Discussion Forum. “Antidepressants and warning of suicidal thoughts come to mind. Someone has a rough spot in their life, gets help and the next thing they know they're prohibited.”

Forum member GMAN106 of Delaware County took a more nuanced view.

“I'm against government promotion of the narcotization of its citizenry. A doped-up, dumbed-down electorate is certainly no bulwark against tyranny,” he said. “As for stoners and firearms, I vote no, but they probably present less a public threat than the alcohol-fueled maniacs who wreak havoc among us already.”

And that's part of the problem. According to Dansky, law enforcement agencies are operating under the belief that medical marijuana patients are just looking to get high. But for stoners, it's less of a hassle, and probably cheaper, to find a dealer of illegal pot on Reddit or Instagram.

“You have to go through a significant amount of work to get a medical marijuana card,” Dansky said. Those hoops include state charges, doctor fees that aren't covered by insurance, and a criminal background check. Buying illicitly “is a lot easier.”
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NightmarePatrol

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Re: Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 10:05:51 AM »
I think it's a BS call. However there is this thing called "nullification" which is the notion that states can declare federal laws unconstitutional. This of course has been used with very limited success. Some times the states are backed by other states and sometimes they are not. If the feds are really set against it they will withhold federal funds until the state bends to their will like what they did with the state of Montana and their "no daytime speed limit" on the interstates. It has been attempted/used with slaveery, segregation and even in the banking system.

Now of course, you have the weed farms themselves of which many have armed guards patrolling the perimeter.  Are these guards going to have to be tested to make sure they aren't users themselves. Make sure you get your ticket for a front row seat. it's going to be entertaining and on a more serious note it's going to bleed over into a lot of other interesting areas I think.
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lifefeedsonlife

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Re: Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 02:35:18 PM »
Nullification is a wonderful tool for juries who think the law itself is stupid.

That being said - this idea of no gun ownership for folks on medical marijuana is ludicrous. As far as legalization of marijuana goes - you're going to see a decrease in market violence as a result. (How many wineries in the NAPA Valley - or up in Northeast for that matter - have gun battles over product / turf?) Someday we might come around to the idea that you could legalize the whole enchilada . . . because Prohibition doesn't work.
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Re: Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 03:33:53 PM »
Truth be told the "war on drugs" has been an abysmal failure and cost the taxpayer a ton of money. Part of the problem in legalizing it will be how to effectively punish or deter those who don't want to comply with the "tax-stamp" mentality. It hasn't unfolded yet, but the last thing we need is the reenactment of the John Brown Whiskey Rebellion at a national scale on our hands.
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gore range

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Re: Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 06:07:11 PM »
….as a resident in the state which has been leading the nation in the legalization of over the counter sale and use of a stunningly wide variety of cannabis products, one of the main arguments presented in the successful pro-cannabis  legalization process was that it would eliminate the illegal marijuana black market. And as a result, such would eliminate the numerous social and criminal issues associated with the illegal marijuana black market.

While the marijuana legalization has been a huge financial windfall for the state, the reality is the marijuana black market is now even bigger than it was prior to legalization.

The reality if you seek to use commercial medical cannabis for treatment, you will lose your guns. Period.

While the libs proactively support cannabis legalization, next to the Trumpster, guns are the worst evil in the universe. The loons will never allow cannabis patients to keep their guns.   

However, the current alternate reality with black market cannabis being  more readily available on the black market here than before legalization, and noticeably cheaper than legal commercial cannabis-

....it ain't exactly rocket science breaking the secret code on what a patient using cannabis for medicinal purposes needs to do to keep his firearms.
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lifefeedsonlife

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Re: Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 06:14:37 PM »
And the market takes care of itself. Black or otherwise. Question for you Gore - has violence associated with drug running decreased in Colorado?
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gore range

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Re: Marijuana or 2nd amendment
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2018, 07:09:33 PM »
....it certainly depends on the source of the data. Its become a political hot potato. The Denver Post reports crime is rising faster than anywhere else in the country. On the  other hand, there is no hard documentation linking such to cannabis legalization. But such is commonly agreed to that it is too early in the new cannabis game to produce a valid ability to collect useful data at this point.

There are are however two widely accepted common themes developing across the the board -

…..the number of 'transients' coming to Denver is way, way  up. Then the debate starts, is crime following  that financially challenged demographic? No established data at this point.

And, the other notable consistency-

….. concealed carry permit applications and gun sales background checks have “skyrocketed”, according to the hard core liberal Denver Post.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 07:15:21 AM by gore range »
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