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Author Topic: The Trump Administration  (Read 19055 times)

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Jayhawk

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #300 on: April 02, 2017, 02:13:30 AM »
Nice effort to restart coal mining, but there's no market anymore thanks to cheaper alternatives, not because of federal regulations.

And even if Trump magically increases mining employment significantly, it's still only a tiny, tiny part of the U.S. workforce. There are more people working at Arby's and in the bowling industry.

-------
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/?tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.a99e847224a2

The entire coal industry employs fewer people than Arby’s

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Lifetime

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #301 on: April 02, 2017, 08:28:15 AM »
There are a few ways that straight coal use can be adjusted... to make a gas from it or even a liquid which could be made clean enough for use in the future.

Also... why does everyone think our country is the only user of our coal...

read... https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_imports



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gasification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_liquefactionhttp://


Our supply in the USA...

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Energy.html



I know we see the miners as backwoods "hillbillies" who know nuthin' 'bout the flatlanders but... As with many industries, it offered good paid jobs ...even though it was dangerous work. I worked 5 years at "Generous Sharon Steel" and saw friends die... some by being burned to death, falls and even impalement....not to mention equipment mishaps. We worked for the pay and the benefits to our families and many retired and did live long past their 80s or more. We still have an appetite for steel and iron. and coke is used to make it. There is more to this than dust covered faces. Science is capable of making it cleaner and more usable. IMHO





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NightmarePatrol

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #302 on: April 02, 2017, 04:58:57 PM »
There's actually huge market in China as they are turning up multiple coal fired power plants per month and many on bituminous coal. The government there has a cease and desist order but the locals are still building them. China is also the largest producer and consumer of coal in the world.  They'll be exporting their smog pretty soon too. Thing change and just become unsustainable. I can't say if coal is there yet, but it will be soon enough. Solar is in fact economically feasible in the sunny climates, but it's not a universal solution either. So for now we'll plod along with what we have until something comes along that puts it out to pasture permanently. When that happens I hope the coal region is prepared for it because they'll be back to 1900 living standards faster than they think.

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Lifetime

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #303 on: April 02, 2017, 05:36:53 PM »
Hmmmm... please read "America is the Saudi Arabia of coal"

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Energy.html

Yes... China uses more coal than anyone but ..... In fact...check the Whole site if you would.





There's actually huge market in China as they are turning up multiple coal fired power plants per month and many on bituminous coal. The government there has a cease and desist order but the locals are still building them. China is also the largest producer and consumer of coal in the world.  They'll be exporting their smog pretty soon too. Thing change and just become unsustainable. I can't say if coal is there yet, but it will be soon enough. Solar is in fact economically feasible in the sunny climates, but it's not a universal solution either. So for now we'll plod along with what we have until something comes along that puts it out to pasture permanently. When that happens I hope the coal region is prepared for it because they'll be back to 1900 living standards faster than they think.
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bighair80s

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #304 on: April 02, 2017, 05:49:22 PM »
"I'm college-educated, played baseball for West Virginia University and graduated with a degree in criminal justice. I chose this lifestyle because it pays well, I can live by the rest of my family and friends (and) do a job I am very proud of."


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/where-coal-is-still-king/article/2615107
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bighair80s

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #305 on: April 02, 2017, 06:11:12 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^^
 l l l l l l l l l l l l l l

"But imagine, for a moment, if 30 percent of the people living in Washington, Manhattan or Silicon Valley lost their jobs.

Imagine those people being told their jobs are never coming back. That it's time to move away from family, friends, their way of life and all the rich culture they love about their cities.

No more trips to world-class museums, libraries, Broadway or Kennedy Center performances.

Those lazy Sunday brunches while reading the New York Times or the Washington Post? Gone, a thing of the past, because both newspapers will be closing.

Oh, and one more thing: Imagine those folks watching their cities crumble, their schools close, houses being abandoned in their neighborhoods — and then becoming the butt of every Hollywood entertainer's joke, or being publicly shamed by Meryl Streep.

Congratulations! You now know how 70 percent of the people in this Pennsylvania county feel, along with many more in the 2,625 other counties that Trump won nationally on Election Day."



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Jayhawk

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #306 on: April 03, 2017, 01:33:13 AM »
One of many references that suggest China's coal imports are dropping, and it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway:

http://www.sightline.org/2016/01/12/five-key-facts-about-collapsing-coal-exports/

"Five Key Facts about Collapsing Coal Exports
The reality: China is using less coal, and US coal exports just can't compete."
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clp_lives

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #307 on: April 03, 2017, 10:38:48 AM »
Or we could push for solar and wind that once installed provide very cheap energy for decades without the need to dig up, transport or pollute anymore.  The rest of the world is doing it, if we don't we will be left behind with the more expensive choice and that long term does not help jobs.

There are a few ways that straight coal use can be adjusted... to make a gas from it or even a liquid which could be made clean enough for use in the future.

Also... why does everyone think our country is the only user of our coal...

read... https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_imports



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gasification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_liquefactionhttp://


Our supply in the USA...

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Energy.html



I know we see the miners as backwoods "hillbillies" who know nuthin' 'bout the flatlanders but... As with many industries, it offered good paid jobs ...even though it was dangerous work. I worked 5 years at "Generous Sharon Steel" and saw friends die... some by being burned to death, falls and even impalement....not to mention equipment mishaps. We worked for the pay and the benefits to our families and many retired and did live long past their 80s or more. We still have an appetite for steel and iron. and coke is used to make it. There is more to this than dust covered faces. Science is capable of making it cleaner and more usable. IMHO
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Amidala

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #308 on: April 03, 2017, 12:39:22 PM »
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clp_lives

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #309 on: April 03, 2017, 12:58:37 PM »
Trump claimed lots of jobs that are really not his as the process in many cases started well before his Presidency, wonder if he will take the credit for US jobs lost as Mexico branches out to the rest of the world with all his threats.   Free trade currently supports millions of US jobs.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/03/news/economy/mexico-pivots-eu-trade-talks/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom
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gore range

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #310 on: April 04, 2017, 11:32:43 AM »
Re:


For readers interested a balanced, intellectually honest examination of the documented facts in order to evaluate current events, “One of many references that suggest China's coal imports ...” is written by Clark Williams-Derry,  a documented liberal environmental activist, and the article is  posted on the Sightline Institute’s web page. From the Sightline Institute. web page:



Of note, the erroneous fabricated conclusion “ it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway is not even addressed in Williams-Derry’s one-sided, self-serving biased article arguing against coal shipments to China.

The factual reality is, while indeed it is costly to ship coal to China, the Chinese are more than willing to pay the price, particularly in light of ongoing current geo-political developments which are notably conveniently overlooked and ignored by those cherry picking ‘publications’ “suggest”ing support for their self-entitled, visceral politically motivated delusional perspectives

Contrary to William-Derry’s dated and inaccurate conclusion China is using less coal as evidenced by his observation “Chinese customs data shows that imports last November were down more than 50 percent from January 2014., as the well-informed and well read forum administrator Nightmarepatrol  correctly posts above- “ There's actually huge market in China as they are turning up multiple coal fired power plants per month”.

Factually, Chinese imports of coal where indeed down 50% in November of 2014. Such is understandable to informed readers. The standard Chinese practice, just as it is in Europe and elsewhere were they depend on coal imports, is to stock pile supplies of available coal in preparation for the higher demand winter months, and then reinitiate shipments of coal those higher-demand stockpiled winter supplies  begin to be consumed.

Contrary to liberal, anti-coal, environmental activist William-berry’s biased dated January 2016 self-serving alleged argument China  is using less coal, CBS’ 60 Minutes recently cited the November 2016 Bloomberg New Energy Finance analysis concluding China, “ will build a new coal power plant every week until at least 2020..

Bloomberg analysis concludes “ Of the 2,400 coal-fired power plants under construction or being planned around the world, 1,171 will be built in China. This rapid growth of coal power means that, mathematically, Chinese carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions are unlikely to stop rising. Such a rapid rise in Chinese CO2 emissions will more than cancel out the rest of the world’s CO2 cuts. At the same time, China is slashing its investment in wind and solar power.”.

One can certainly begin to appreciate the self-serving, biased motivation fueling environmental activist William-Berry’s “reporting” on the environmental activist Sightline Institute’s web page regarding exporting coal to China.

“...it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway” certainly “ suggest[/][/]
[/]
[/]
s” it is indeed too costly to ship coal to China, or anywhere else in the Pacific Rim.

Shown below are the locations of the current west coast coal oceanic Pacific Rim trans-shipment facilities shipping well over 10 million metric tons of coal to China annually, in addition to  US coal shipments South Korea, Japan, India and a host of other coal-hungry Pacific nations:



At least six more west coast coal transshipment facilities are in the planning stages, and of course are being protested, attacked by the liberal environmental movement. Readers are free to conclude  “...it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway”.


Self-serving environmental activist Williams-Berry “reports” :



Numerous valid sources report US coal’s completion in Asia is-

....the Democratic Peoples’ Republic of Korea




While it is certainly understandable US coal is at a financial disadvantage competing with North Korean coal to its immediately adjacent southern coal-needy neighbor,

....of note, self-serving environmental activist Williams-Berry telling ignorantly “reports”:




....just a hunch-

....Williams-Berry’s symbolic a-couple-sizes-too small-pussy hat was pulled down over his likely otherwise CNN loving eyes limiting his self-serving vision:



Of course, reader’s are free to conclude the US is indeed needlessly “shipping coal to New Castle” and “...it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway”.
[/]
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NightmarePatrol

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #311 on: April 04, 2017, 04:18:27 PM »
The map above failed to show the closest US location to China, which is Alaska. However coal and shipping companies  face a monsterous hurdle to shipping coal from Alaska. It's called the Jones Act, though it's officially called the Merchant marine act of 1920 which  limits shipping between US ports to ships that are built in the US, and crewed by at least 75% US citizens. That means sipping coal from Alaska to a port in the lower 48 would cost at least twice as much as shipping coal an equivalent distance outside the US. This is going on the assumption that you could find a ship and crew that actually meets these requirements.

There's a lot of similar stuff on the books like this as well. So BOHICA.  :shakeass:

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clp_lives

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #312 on: April 04, 2017, 10:46:12 PM »
You seemed to have left out more recent articles where China is investing $361 billion and creating 13 million jobs over the next 5 years in renewable energy and they have recently invested twice as much as the US in the sector.  That is a huge investment despite cost decreases in solar and wind due to technology advancements.  A tad bit different than your claim China is cutting back and of course when prices drop 40% you can spend much less and get just as much.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/china-announces-massive-investment-into-renewable-energy/

"In 2015 China’s coal use has fallen in 2015 across a wide range of measures and  its national carbon emissions are likely to have fallen by about 3% as a  result. There was a 3.5% drop in coal production, coal-fired  electricity generation fell 2.8% and overall power generation dropped  0.2%, the first fall in 50 years.

And  you could use more recent data that accounts for the huge increase in  coal plants put on hold that were under construction.  Last year coal plants under construction fell by 2/3rds, China halting 100 plants alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-power-plants-green-energy-china-india
[/]



But yeah it is expected some details were left out as it does not fit your agenda.




Re:


For readers interested a balanced, intellectually honest examination of the documented facts in order to evaluate current events, “One of many references that suggest China's coal imports ...” is written by Clark Williams-Derry,  a documented liberal environmental activist, and the article is  posted on the Sightline Institute’s web page. From the Sightline Institute. web page:



Of note, the erroneous fabricated conclusion “ it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway is not even addressed in Williams-Derry’s one-sided, self-serving biased article arguing against coal shipments to China.

The factual reality is, while indeed it is costly to ship coal to China, the Chinese are more than willing to pay the price, particularly in light of ongoing current geo-political developments which are notably conveniently overlooked and ignored by those cherry picking ‘publications’ “suggest”ing support for their self-entitled, visceral politically motivated delusional perspectives

Contrary to William-Derry’s dated and inaccurate conclusion China is using less coal as evidenced by his observation “Chinese customs data shows that imports last November were down more than 50 percent from January 2014., as the well-informed and well read forum administrator Nightmarepatrol  correctly posts above- “ There's actually huge market in China as they are turning up multiple coal fired power plants per month”.

Factually, Chinese imports of coal where indeed down 50% in November of 2014. Such is understandable to informed readers. The standard Chinese practice, just as it is in Europe and elsewhere were they depend on coal imports, is to stock pile supplies of available coal in preparation for the higher demand winter months, and then reinitiate shipments of coal those higher-demand stockpiled winter supplies  begin to be consumed.

Contrary to liberal, anti-coal, environmental activist William-berry’s biased dated January 2016 self-serving alleged argument China  is using less coal, CBS’ 60 Minutes recently cited the November 2016 Bloomberg New Energy Finance analysis concluding China, “ will build a new coal power plant every week until at least 2020..

Bloomberg analysis concludes “ Of the 2,400 coal-fired power plants under construction or being planned around the world, 1,171 will be built in China. This rapid growth of coal power means that, mathematically, Chinese carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions are unlikely to stop rising. Such a rapid rise in Chinese CO2 emissions will more than cancel out the rest of the world’s CO2 cuts. At the same time, China is slashing its investment in wind and solar power.”.

And you could use more recent data that accounts for the huge increase in coal plants put on hold that were under construction.  Last year coal plants under construction fell by 2/3rds, China halting 100 plants alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-power-plants-green-energy-china-india

One can certainly begin to appreciate the self-serving, biased motivation fueling environmental activist William-Berry’s “reporting” on the environmental activist Sightline Institute’s web page regarding exporting coal to China.

“...it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway” certainly “ suggest[/][/][/]
[/][/]s” it is indeed too costly to ship coal to China, or anywhere else in the Pacific Rim.

Shown below are the locations of the current west coast coal oceanic Pacific Rim trans-shipment facilities shipping well over 10 million metric tons of coal to China annually, in addition to  US coal shipments South Korea, Japan, India and a host of other coal-hungry Pacific nations:



At least six more west coast coal transshipment facilities are in the planning stages, and of course are being protested, attacked by the liberal environmental movement. Readers are free to conclude  “...it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway”.


Self-serving environmental activist Williams-Berry “reports” :



Numerous valid sources report US coal’s completion in Asia is-

....the Democratic Peoples’ Republic of Korea




While it is certainly understandable US coal is at a financial disadvantage competing with North Korean coal to its immediately adjacent southern coal-needy neighbor,

....of note, self-serving environmental activist Williams-Berry telling ignorantly “reports”:




....just a hunch-

....Williams-Berry’s symbolic a-couple-sizes-too small-pussy hat was pulled down over his likely otherwise CNN loving eyes limiting his self-serving vision:



Of course, reader’s are free to conclude the US is indeed needlessly “shipping coal to New Castle” and “...it's too expensive to send them our coal, anyway”.
[/]

« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 11:00:49 PM by clp_lives »
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clp_lives

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #313 on: April 05, 2017, 12:00:55 PM »
Wow, that is one enlightening quote from the World Coal association rep, yes it still will be key considering it makes up 50% of China's energy mix now.  It is pretty obvious to most that coal still needs to be a part of the energy mix in the future here and in China.  It will not happen overnight but a $300B+ investment over the next 5 years and recently doubling the US investment says China is serious.  Hugging a tree is much better than swimming in orange coal mine acid drainage.  Once you see that running into a river you just shake your head.

Re:


Informative and enlightening Guardian article.

Thanx for sharing.



Tho,  no surprise the tree hugger slant totally glaringly ignores the current reality of geo-politics with the sudden crippling shortage of the millions of tons on kimchee-scented coal.

 
아니, 너를 사랑해. 너 내가 좋아하는 공산주의 삼촌.

내 모든 석탄을 아주 좋은 가격에 팔겠다.

제발, 석탄을 구입하여 발전소에 연료를 공급하십시오.

[/]
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clp_lives

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Re: The Trump Administration
« Reply #314 on: April 05, 2017, 04:48:15 PM »
Glad to see it is OK for Trump to allow coal companies to sell their coal at a lower price to affiliates and reduce their royalty payment for their leased land then sell it at a higher price to foreigners.  That only makes sense possibly to you and Trump.  Then again Trump just said O'Reilly did not wrong as well so you can understand his state of mind.


  ....Tump discriminating against foreigners again:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/04/interior-department-repeals-obama-era-coal-royalties/

....the racist bigot that he is. :D   
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