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The Trump Administration
by gore range
[Yesterday at 08:18:20 PM]
* CLP REPORT *
by gore range
[September 18, 2018, 01:14:50 AM]
Sad day
by NightmarePatrol
[September 17, 2018, 06:50:14 PM]
No Topic. Anything Goes.
by NightmarePatrol
[September 12, 2018, 02:39:09 PM]
Tell us how you hated 8 years of OBAMA and less than 2 years of TRUMP...
by gore range
[August 29, 2018, 09:28:05 PM]
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Author Topic: The Obama Administration  (Read 421599 times)

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lifefeedsonlife

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The Obama Administration
« on: September 01, 2009, 07:14:55 AM »
Started it there - I'll start it here!
 
What I think this really is coming down to is a question of a powerful Federal Government as opposed to giving the States more reign. I would prefer the States, though I get the impression that they're not much better in terms of fiscal responsibility (California, New York and Michigan come immediately to mind) or the ability to get things accomplished in a timely fashion. (Pennsylvania comes to mind - though I now wonder if there's a method to their madness - i.e. lowering the deficit by not funding things for a few months.)
 
The larger the centralized system, the greater the potential for getting large things done, though the greater the inertia too. ("This is a luxury liner, not a speedboat. It's going to take some time to turn it around.) What I mean is - there's a great benefit to pooling resources (Apollo comes to mind), but the drawback is who gets the resources back (which is "pork"), who is in charge of the oversight (we live in a bureaucracy - whioch creates a nice faceless "they" to blame things on), and once a project is completed - how is it kept up?
 
Anybody ever been to Moscow? Incredible architectural works . . . from a distance. Tremendous monuments to the collective might of centralized of power - which are now crumbling because there's no impetus or real responsibility (i.e. ownership) to continue upkeep. (The hot water system comes to mind. Cripes I find the prospect of something like that here utterly terrifying.)
 
I'd much rather have a majority of government functions handled at a State (or even County) level where power can better be managed by the voice of the People . . . faces and names get lost in larger systems and the 'individual' (meaning identity, creativity and freedom) becomes secondary to the collective. Collectives don't tend to pull for the individual. But transitory, 'unsystemized' groups of individuals banded together for a common cause do. Sounds contradictory but when you think about it - it isn't.
 
What I've seen happening in the federal system is a centralization of power. It started a long time ago and has really begun to come to fruition this past decade. I don't like the idea. I think it's ultimately very dangerous to identity, creativity, and freedom.
 
I am a critic of centralized power.
 
Therefore I tend towards being a critic of the Obama Administration.
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TiFeMb

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 08:02:15 AM »
I am a supporter of the Obama Administration for a different reason: I believed that we needed to change the system too but we only had 2 choices: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden.
 
Honestly, The McCain campaign was a disaster. The republicans continue to be divisive and outright mean (seriously, kicking Kennedy the DAY AFTER he died, come on) and right wing radio just sickens me.
 
So yes, I voted for hope & change, Call me a wide eyed optimist but I have been the cynic and living that life is depressing and cold. It's not good for my health, my soul or my country so I have to believe things will get better.
 
And things won't get better by attacking the side that won. That goes for both sides.
 
Yes, I have issues with the centralization of government and I don't agree with the current health care bill, but I think thiese are the cards we were dealt and everyone needs to positively do their part to change the process.
 
Calling people names & disrespecting our country's highest office isn't the way to go. Taking care of your immediate communities DOES make a difference.
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NightmarePatrol

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 08:06:12 AM »
Well, we had the choice of the candidates from the big parties. I voted for neither of two party candidates. I took the road less traveled. My candidate was not elected and I knew he would not be. However my voice (no matter how insignificant) was heard.
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lifefeedsonlife

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 08:36:21 AM »
I agree NP. Voted for change by voting outside the two parties that got us here. Wish more people would see that. I agree TiFe that the McCain campaign was doomed from the start, but I think it's more because people think there's a real difference between the two money parties. They've shared power for a long long time and . . . here we are.

They share the blame, though to hear them tell it they don't. I don't disrespect the offices of power, though I don't always agree with the ideologies of those who who hold it at a given time. I find myself in disagreement more often than not over the past 5-6 years.

Not a Bush/Cheney fan. Not an Obama/Biden fan and I wasn't too hep on Mccain/Palin either.

So Libertarian candidate for me . . .

TiFe I agree 100% with your statement that taking care of your immediate communities makes a difference . . . thing is - when there are Federal / State rules and regulations that prvent adapatability to local need (remember centralization promotes uniformity) they stand in hindrance of local governments doing so.

I don't see that as effective.
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lifefeedsonlife

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 10:21:20 AM »
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

The approval numbers for the current Administration aren't looking all that good right now . . . . 
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bighair80s

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 11:10:36 AM »
re:social justice
 
lifeeds, ive something for you to read. the author is  liberatarian and secular.  a very acomplished political scientist to boot. i have read the full book. taken university rated courses and read many other books that another author has reccomended about political science and its history. im thinking we are living in historic times. i have taken nearly a full year to study the prerequisites to even be able to understand the concepts involved.( and i still am a dummy to some extent) understanding this in political historical perspective is not a pretty picture. social justice is "anything but" apparantly. this is telling right here: Ideology is a form of theoretical conscription: everyone, by virtue of class, sex, race, or nation, is smartly uniformed and assigned to one side or the other. you know what, ive worn that uniform, sometimes unbeknownst to me, i think that is where a lot of americans are right now... and some wear it like wolves in sheeps clothing, some want us to wear it and fight like wolves with each other while they steal our real freedom.
 
http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/print.aspx?article=1105&loc=b&type=cbtp
 
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TiFeMb

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 01:23:59 PM »
Quote
...when there are Federal / State rules and regulations that prvent adapatability to local need (remember centralization promotes uniformity) they stand in hindrance of local governments doing so.

I don't see that as effective.

I have the same problem in my work environment. We have adapted and figured out ways around the impediments. Not really truthful or honorable, but it lends itself to being effective without always fighting with a force that we don't have ant leverage with. Our country was built on this kind of adaptation & ingenuity. Short of an all out revolution, we are going to have to just be creative.
 
Taxes still suck though.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 09:16:23 PM by TiFeMb »
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Puffin

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 01:59:38 PM »
When I look at the Federal part of the govt and consider those things that can only be done by the Fed like fixing SS, Medicare, Healthcare and the economy, Climat change ect. The disconnect is pretty apparent.
I like most citizens have a vested interest in getting the above mentioned problems fixed, and that interest is not seperated by party affiliation. Were this a business, people would be assigned to fix it, their performance would be measured primarily by success or failure. There are rewards for success, and for failure someone else would be found to fix it.
However, the politicians we have to fix these problems have vested interests that do not have fixing the problem as there primary mission.
So what we see is a split by party on any issue of import. The reason is that the vested interest of lets say the Republican politicians in the case of todays problems, is not in solving the problem, but that the Democrats fail to solve the problem. A Democrat failure enhances Republican re-election possibilities and vice versa.Both parties have had a solution for the problems, but there is rarely concensus, or even compromise.
So who benefits? Not me.
A friend proposed that we should lock them all in chambers, with their weapon of choice, (no firearms) and let them decide the issues gladiator style,last man standing wins. The casualties from both sides then get all their medical treatment for trauma at the VA.
 
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CindyLouWho

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 04:50:20 PM »
A friend proposed that we should lock them all in chambers, with their weapon of choice, (no firearms) and let them decide the issues gladiator style,last man standing wins. The casualties from both sides then get all their medical treatment for trauma at the VA.
 

Good one!
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NightmarePatrol

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 04:59:18 PM »
Why the VA? Why not use the new health plan that's about to unfold? That might be an incentive to take a harder look at what they're about to do.
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lifefeedsonlife

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 07:34:05 PM »
From bh's article:
 
Quote
Ideology is to reality, I suggest, as (in Tolstoy’s opinion) the reports of battles are to the concrete experience of individuals in the field. In ideological moods, we think we see in social and political life those clear lines from the history books depicting the battle order of the antagonists in massed array. They have neat, clear names like bourgeois and proletarian, colonialist and national, city-dweller and producer, in a word, oppressor and oppressed. The actual reality, however, is messy. Things change all the time, and it becomes impossible to keep any clear and distinct identities in focus. Confronting the arguments of ideology, we are forced to transform the Stendhalian question: Is it really a battle that we are in?

There's nothing new under the sun is there?
 
I think sometimes we invent storms and thunder because it's our nature to do so.
 
Thing is - the bottom line in the undertakings we pursue is effectiveness. Does it work? Ideology aside, from the lions' pride, the bees' hive, to New York City - is this a way to live that works within the constructs fo the environment we're in? I'd say yes to the pride and the hive . . . so far . . . and maybe even the city, but I would say prides and hives have withstood a greater test of time.
 
Personally - it's in my nature to question and prod. I like to test . . . whether it's "allowed" or not. In my lifetime I've been a "fan" of a number of so-called ideologies - but my fanclub memeberships have changed as I've gained experience.
 
Perhaps I'm an "anti-ist" . . . which just makes me another kind of "ist" in the end according to that author.
 
Am I in a battle?
 
Only the ones I choose to fight in . . . .   
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bighair80s

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 08:49:02 PM »
typical definitions for ideology in this instance will not fit, as americans we make claim on the verbiage and twist it to our political or religious uses if we fancy. the author was talking of political ideology in its root form as a vehicle of social change with karl marxx being the chief paradigm, but not limited to that. (see  wicki for a overwiew but stick with poly sci sources) 

so, the psychological, social and collective elements of centralized govt, social engineering, and etc.. are not good. it is "ideology" not so simply put" it has come around many times in history.    it has lots of telltale markers, they look different each time they reappear but still have the same markers... that was my point...and the point of the article.   im pretty sure   you are supposed to "inquire, ask , seek, TEST.. i would advise it. that was what prompted me to go outside my comfort zone.

one paragraph that i think would sum up ideology nicely is this, 

ideology is a story about losing and regaining  the human identity told in an ironical tone. irony distances  ideologues from the suffering and ugliness of the human condition, allowing them to look down from the world at a beautiful height.(when forming their theories) political society is  thus judged from an impossible standard, the anarchist utopia, and found hopelessly wanting. whereas religions promise heaven in the next life, ideologies promise heaven on earth. 

it is easy to see marxx's socialist ideas in this light, but perhaps less likely to see how any western govt could promise utopia, or something close.. or is it?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 09:09:19 PM by bighair80s »
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TiFeMb

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 09:27:00 PM »
Quote
whereas religions promise heaven in the next life, ideologies promise heaven on earth. 

I like that. I like the way the pilgrims lived their faith and to an extent, I like what the Amish do. Without my faith I would be a seriously cynical dude.

The problem is we all can't check out of this society (like the Indians or the Amish), and we are stuck with a system that seems to be more and more dysfunctional every day. What's the answer? Although I lean Libertarian, I don't think that party would help much. We really need a grass roots effort to fundamentally change the laws in our favor, first at the local level, then move up the chain.

I would love to have a degree in law right now, and have the time to make a difference and change bad law. I have seriously considered running for local office but don't have the money to throw around (another serious flaw in our election process, only the privileged can afford to 'serve'),
Wasn't that what campaign finance was originally for?

woah, need sleep, peepers are shutting down...
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Puffin

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 10:45:32 PM »
I don't think all those that run for elected office set out to be products of the "system". I believe , for the most part that they did have some ideal to make a difference. It's just that the priveleges of the system are overwhelming or seductive, and can engulf anyone.
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NightmarePatrol

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Re: The Obama Administration
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 06:49:38 AM »
Mr. Rogers is wise.
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