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NightmarePatrol

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The middle east
« on: February 24, 2011, 02:50:43 PM »
Well now Lybia is about to go poof, Bahrain is in turmoil and there is discord on Saudi Arabia. Where does that leave us in the end? Will we have a better deal or are we going to take it in the end?

At this point it looks like the impact on us is going to be negative. I can't fork out too much more for gas before something gives. Actually a number of things have already gone by the wayside, I'm just wondering what (or who) is next.
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Zipper

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 03:58:11 PM »
It depends on what you mean by the word "we".
 
On another note:
 
I found this to be funny.... as in funny-haha funny.
 
I wonder if the peanuts were ok?
 


 
 
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Lifetime

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 04:42:48 PM »
I am usually blown off when I say the GASOLINE/OIL Speculaters do their damnedest tohike the price of a gallon of Gas but I don't care.... This increase you are seeing is SPECULATION. They know Libya is going to be shutting....key going to...the oil off. Saudi and OPEC has stated they will increase their output to cover all if not a good part of that supply. No wells are burning.... yet...so it looks like it has been or will be a slow down at best. So as it stands... this is all on an assumption and not fact. THAT is speculation.
 
Now...Gas is at $4+ per gal in CA. Our basic jump off point the last time averaged $4.15/gal before we pulled back. My question, and I don't need the Bicycle/horse crowd chiming in.... I am talking about those who NEED to get to work and school by gas power...is.... where is your "jumping off point"?
 
I am lucky...wife works a short distance and I am retired. Main use of gas is to get groceries, doctor, and now...the vets. I have a friend and his wife who spend $100 a week on gas now.... to get to work. I say gas in Sharon for $3.23 and then was floored when I went to Ohio.... $3.30. Usually Ohio is cheaper. It is going to be an interesting Memorial Day weekend and I can't even imagine Summer. Even those who don't drive will pay...unless they grow and weave everything they have. Even Airlines have kicked up prices by $40.
 
So.... How do you feel about the Bakken Fields now? And the offshore oil rigs. I say DRILL!!!!
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lifefeedsonlife

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 05:04:50 PM »
( . . . bicycle . . . . )
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Zipper

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 05:28:21 PM »
I think we could all do without so much plastic crap. Look at how much of it goes from our cupboards.. directly into the trash on a daily basis.

And I am sure the technology for alternative fuels has been available for a very long time. I remember hearing my parents talk (back in the 70's gas crisis) about how patents were bought and then socked away in a vault somewhere so the technology would NOT be used. No profit for big oil in gasless cars.

I like the ones that run on air.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/preview-concept/4217016

I also know that SUVs are important in the snow belt, and not so important in the sunbelt. And bicycles are hard to ride in a thunderstorm, and one really can't ride one up State Road Hill, or from downtown to Walmart uness you are in really good shape.

And I've seen the emails of photos of all the wealth in Saudi Arabia... and other places where our $4 a gallon goes.

And I watch "House Hunters International" to see how other people live. Gas prices in some places are outrageous, and it's not uncommon in some far-away lands to still see a horse and cart, or an ox and cart, or a really beat up old clunker on a dirt road.

I'm always amazed on those shows when someone purchases a $500K home, especially those much younger than my youngest brother. What do these people do for a living?

But the truth is... I think "they" have you right where "they" want you... us.... all of us.

Keep us at home, close to home, scratching and surviving, too stupid or complacent to do anything else about it.

At least Life is biking to work. Mr. Zip rides a motorcycle all summer long. I have an economical car now, and a motorcycle and motorcycle license, but I'm still afraid on it. In a pinch I could get where I need to go.

So what can you do?





 

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Zipper

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 05:37:39 PM »
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Lifetime

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 06:49:01 PM »
Zip....it still takes fuel to make glass and pottery and then we shipit and sell it...Even the Electric cars use COAL. The air car??? Nice but do you intend on blowing the air into the tank or use an electric compressor...hmmmm a hand pump maybe?
 
I heard the same urban legends about 150mpgcarbs and crap like that .... and when I ask who the NEW MULTI MILLIONAIRES are, no one....no one comes up with a name..... Hmmmmm I think the IRS would be interested. I believe we are 30 years behind lab experiments but.... do you think a guy like Trump or Gates would have bought the ideas?
 
Here is the truth, no matter how you play the record. We WILL be using OIL and the GASOLINE ENGINE is NOT going anywhere in your lifetime. Reason I say this..... All of the Military equipment use fossil fuels..old and the newest on up to the fastest jet, and speaking of jets..... AircraftCompanies are STILL designing and building aircraft that use ...yup, you guessed it...FOSSIL fuel. Now these vehicles are built to be used for ...not a year or two but DECADES. The B-52 was built in the 50s and now we have Grandsons flying the same B-52 their Grand Fathers flew and will be flying on into about 2025. We are not getting off the OIL...it ain't happening. Our problem is NOT the so called "PEAK oil. Our problem is legislation that limits and prevents our acquiring it. I am not going to drink the Kool Aid that we have 20 more years of oil. Bakken has enough reserves for probably 2 more..... Centuries....and that is on OUR soil. I am not even including off shore....or even Natural Gas.
 
I don't care what you as an individual does as far as recycle or get rid of plastic or heat your home with wood. You have to do what you feel. I lived in a home heated with wood and even coal.... it ain't all that pretty. I have had to hand pump water from a well and use an outhouse.... that ain't pretty either so I like the conveniences and I don't really want to run helter skelter back to days gone by after being spoiled by a gas furnace, electricity and running water I don't have to run to the pump for. That is good for a vacation in the woods but I did enough of it as a 24/7/365. You can hug a tree if you want, just don't force me to.
 
We are at the cusp...tipping point..... the Middle East is about to go sour and we need to crap or get off the pot. We don't need to be importing all of this oil, thus putting national security at risk. The only thing I would suggest ....if we do drill and pump our own oil.... it stays home. If it is sold outside our border...a fee goes to OUR Government to pay off any debts...not make new programs until the slate is clear. If we can't use anything but Crude Sweet.... then we use R&D to develop a way we can use the less fine grades. Hell, we set up Japan to use the crap they pump out of Alaska, we should do it for ourselves. I believe in FAMILY FIRST and then follow up the ladder, neighborhood, city, county state and then COUNTRY. That is it.
 
Talk all the Dirty air and Water you want but I think we have cleaner water and cleaner air now than we had in the 50's. But there are those that keep raising the bar to some tiny finite level. By nature.... soil has anthrax and many poisons in it, without our having touched it. Water absorbs this from the ground or while washing against rock made eons before man crapped in the woods. We are all worried about holding on to our money but with all of this....how can anyone think it is free? Free is ALWAYS relative....and in the end conclusion....someone always pays for it.
 
PS. I quit recycling when I found someone stealing my separated trash I called the police and it was a laugh. So, something that was suppose to save our city money is a joke to those who benefit from it...well it tells me ...so what. My pop and beer cans and plastic bottles all go in the trash with my porkchop bones... Fool me once.....
 
 
I think we could all do without so much plastic crap. Look at how much of it goes from our cupboards.. directly into the trash on a daily basis.

And I am sure the technology for alternative fuels has been available for a very long time. I remember hearing my parents talk (back in the 70's gas crisis) about how patents were bought and then socked away in a vault somewhere so the technology would NOT be used. No profit for big oil in gasless cars.

I like the ones that run on air.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/preview-concept/4217016

I also know that SUVs are important in the snow belt, and not so important in the sunbelt. And bicycles are hard to ride in a thunderstorm, and one really can't ride one up State Road Hill, or from downtown to Walmart uness you are in really good shape.

And I've seen the emails of photos of all the wealth in Saudi Arabia... and other places where our $4 a gallon goes.

And I watch "House Hunters International" to see how other people live. Gas prices in some places are outrageous, and it's not uncommon in some far-away lands to still see a horse and cart, or an ox and cart, or a really beat up old clunker on a dirt road.

I'm always amazed on those shows when someone purchases a $500K home, especially those much younger than my youngest brother. What do these people do for a living?

But the truth is... I think "they" have you right where "they" want you... us.... all of us.

Keep us at home, close to home, scratching and surviving, too stupid or complacent to do anything else about it.

At least Life is biking to work. Mr. Zip rides a motorcycle all summer long. I have an economical car now, and a motorcycle and motorcycle license, but I'm still afraid on it. In a pinch I could get where I need to go.

So what can you do?
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gore range

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 01:09:35 AM »
...Gas is at $4+ per gal in CA. Our basic jump off point the last time averaged $4.15/gal before we pulled back. My question, and I don't need the Bicycle/horse crowd chiming in.... I am talking about those who NEED to get to work and school by gas power...is.... where is your "jumping off point"?...


....back when gas was averaging $3.13/gal here, Tig was over tooling around Scotland:




....that's 1.06 per liter, and that's 1.06 British Pounds per liter, when the buck was worth a tad over 49 cents per Pound....

....adjusted for inflation, that's the equivalent of a tad over $8.70 per gallon....

....out in the Scottish highlands, there is no public transportation system to fall back on, and nary a lad/lass was whining at the $8.70 gallon to get around for a pint or haggis: and I suspect when gas later spiked at the equivalent $11.45/gal, they still didn't hit their jumping off point ....

 
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Jayhawk

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 03:10:52 AM »
Lifetime is right: The price of oil has more to do with speculators than with the reality of supply.

as for the middle east, whatever happens will happen -- without our having a say in it. As it should be. Funny how democracy, or at least non-dictatorships, can happen all by itself without a $2 billion investment on our part.
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NightmarePatrol

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 07:02:21 AM »
Basically the entire planet runs on oil like it or not. If oil got yanked out from underneath us the only people that would not be impacted would be those that have not been tainted by modern civilization. That's only a handful of people. Even the Amish would be affected too. I remember hearing an interview with a woman recently who just bought a Nissan Leaf and proudly announced how happy she was to finally be "off the grid." I thought how stupid are you? Now all your eggs are in one basket. Sure there's natural gas but it's scare compared to oil and most of the planet is not set up to use it as a fuel.

Like it or not (or admit it or not) most of the regimes in the oil producing area were bought and paid for decades ago by us. Over time they went in the direction the love of power took them and now we have uprisings. So the international trend seems to be we're going to get new governments. Good right? Maybe not. The new government may have no ties or concerns to us or any other part of the world. Corruption is a huge global problem. The US is no stranger to it, but if you think it's bad here you don't have to travel very far to see real corruption. I guess my point is the game is about to change and there may not be any referees that we can use.

So to add to Lifetime's point if we are going to pump it here it should stay here. I don't think we've been fully informed (read told the truth) about what the US reserves are or who owns them. I know they say there's lots of oil in numerous places. I've always thought in the back of my head we're just going to buy everyone elses oil until it runs out. Then we're going to be the only country with oil. A battle of attrition. I can't back that up or provide evidence but the concept stick with me for some reason.

So yeah, IMO the shit is gonna hit fan in about 2-3 years time. The question to me is will we get any on us and if so how much?
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Lifetime

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 07:17:25 AM »
I love when an arguement is made on the OTHER countries paying sooooo much more than we do PER GALLON. Let it end.... If you check.... their price per Gallon is almost the same as we pay...all additional it ...now get this...TAXES. So all Europeans are doing is paying maybe 4-5 times more than what gas actually costs because of the Social and Infrastructure programs they feel they needed.
 
Check the price of GASOLINE in places like Saudi and you will find it much less. We have to stop "comparing" US to THEM.... it doesn't work well. Our taxes are usually added beyond the as.... in the forms of fines and fees.... Smoking in NYC or even buy apack of cigarettes or a BIG MAC in some places. We now will need to file for a permit in some places to..... FLY an AMERICAN Flag. We have our share of taxes.... it just isn't slapped on ONE or TWO things...it is over the whole damned rainbow.
 
Europeans rarely NEED a car. The taxes on fuel pays for a superb Mass Transit System and with the roads so narrow in many countries.... they are basically forced to purchase the pregnant rollerskates they do. We establishe a huge Interstate/multilane highway system in the 50s and many were formed after the Autobahn in Germany. We manufactured cars post WWII that could use them and many Americans HAD jobs in those industries. We tried to become unique and now we are trying to "look alike". WTF. We need to pick a direction and GO...
 
 
...Gas is at $4+ per gal in CA. Our basic jump off point the last time averaged $4.15/gal before we pulled back. My question, and I don't need the Bicycle/horse crowd chiming in.... I am talking about those who NEED to get to work and school by gas power...is.... where is your "jumping off point"?...


....back when gas was averaging $3.13/gal here, Tig was over tooling around Scotland:




....that's 1.06 per liter, and that's 1.06 British Pounds per liter, when the buck was worth a tad over 49 cents per Pound....

....adjusted for inflation, that's the equivalent of a tad over $8.70 per gallon....

....out in the Scottish highlands, there is no public transportation system to fall back on, and nary a lad/lass was whining at the $8.70 gallon to get around for a pint or haggis: and I suspect when gas later spiked at the equivalent $11.45/gal, they still didn't hit their jumping off point ....

 

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Lifetime

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 07:21:53 AM »
Please add tothis....most of the mineral/oil bearing land is owned/controled by..... OUR OWN GOVERNMENT!!!!
 
 
 
Basically the entire planet runs on oil like it or not. If oil got yanked out from underneath us the only people that would not be impacted would be those that have not been tainted by modern civilization. That's only a handful of people. Even the Amish would be affected too. I remember hearing an interview with a woman recently who just bought a Nissan Leaf and proudly announced how happy she was to finally be "off the grid." I thought how stupid are you? Now all your eggs are in one basket. Sure there's natural gas but it's scare compared to oil and most of the planet is not set up to use it as a fuel.

Like it or not (or admit it or not) most of the regimes in the oil producing area were bought and paid for decades ago by us. Over time they went in the direction the love of power took them and now we have uprisings. So the international trend seems to be we're going to get new governments. Good right? Maybe not. The new government may have no ties or concerns to us or any other part of the world. Corruption is a huge global problem. The US is no stranger to it, but if you think it's bad here you don't have to travel very far to see real corruption. I guess my point is the game is about to change and there may not be any referees that we can use.

So to add to Lifetime's point if we are going to pump it here it should stay here. I don't think we've been fully informed (read told the truth) about what the US reserves are or who owns them. I know they say there's lots of oil in numerous places. I've always thought in the back of my head we're just going to buy everyone elses oil until it runs out. Then we're going to be the only country with oil. A battle of attrition. I can't back that up or provide evidence but the concept stick with me for some reason.

So yeah, IMO the shit is gonna hit fan in about 2-3 years time. The question to me is will we get any on us and if so how much?
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gore range

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 11:41:48 AM »
I love when an arguement is made on the OTHER countries paying sooooo much more than we do PER GALLON. Let it end.... If you check.... their price per Gallon is almost the same as we pay...all additional it ...now get this...TAXES. So all Europeans are doing is paying maybe 4-5 times more than what gas actually costs because of the Social and Infrastructure programs they feel they needed.
 
Check the price of GASOLINE in places like Saudi and you will find it much less. We have to stop "comparing" US to THEM.... it doesn't work well. Our taxes are usually added beyond the as.... in the forms of fines and fees.... Smoking in NYC or even buy apack of cigarettes or a BIG MAC in some places. We now will need to file for a permit in some places to..... FLY an AMERICAN Flag. We have our share of taxes.... it just isn't slapped on ONE or TWO things...it is over the whole damned rainbow.
 
Europeans rarely NEED a car. The taxes on fuel pays for a superb Mass Transit System and with the roads so narrow in many countries.... they are basically forced to purchase the pregnant rollerskates they do. We establishe a huge Interstate/multilane highway system in the 50s and many were formed after the Autobahn in Germany. We manufactured cars post WWII that could use them and many Americans HAD jobs in those industries. We tried to become unique and now we are trying to "look alike". WTF. We need to pick a direction and GO...


........

....yes,  Dear....

....thanks for sharing....
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Lifetime

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 11:53:48 AM »
....yes,  Dear.... ??? ??? ???   You worry me.... :o


 
 
I love when an arguement is made on the OTHER countries paying sooooo much more than we do PER GALLON. Let it end.... If you check.... their price per Gallon is almost the same as we pay...all additional it ...now get this...TAXES. So all Europeans are doing is paying maybe 4-5 times more than what gas actually costs because of the Social and Infrastructure programs they feel they needed.
 
Check the price of GASOLINE in places like Saudi and you will find it much less. We have to stop "comparing" US to THEM.... it doesn't work well. Our taxes are usually added beyond the as.... in the forms of fines and fees.... Smoking in NYC or even buy apack of cigarettes or a BIG MAC in some places. We now will need to file for a permit in some places to..... FLY an AMERICAN Flag. We have our share of taxes.... it just isn't slapped on ONE or TWO things...it is over the whole damned rainbow.
 
Europeans rarely NEED a car. The taxes on fuel pays for a superb Mass Transit System and with the roads so narrow in many countries.... they are basically forced to purchase the pregnant rollerskates they do. We establishe a huge Interstate/multilane highway system in the 50s and many were formed after the Autobahn in Germany. We manufactured cars post WWII that could use them and many Americans HAD jobs in those industries. We tried to become unique and now we are trying to "look alike". WTF. We need to pick a direction and GO...


........

....yes,  Dear....

....thanks for sharing....

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gore range

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Re: The middle east
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 12:03:50 PM »
....yes,  Dear.... ??? ??? ???   You worry me.... :o


........

....yes,  Dear...

....thanks for sharing....



 
 
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